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  • Jul 1, 2026, 3:29 PM

    "People sometimes end up on obscure sites run by just... anyone. A page made by a local club is as easy to find as a corporate site."

    I didn't realize that the guy I was talking with about the internet in 1999 thought of this as a *problem* to be solved... not what made the internet awesome.

    All along there have been people who see everything you love about the internet as an unfortunate design oversight, something to be fixed. And they've been working for decades to make it happen.

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Replies

  • Jul 1, 2026, 4:48 PM

    All this time... they hate it. They hated how creative it was, they hated the serendipity, the intense meritocracy of memes and social vitality. All of the magical chaos that had me so delighted and charmed ...

    I don't know why I didn't see this sooner.

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 4:08 PM

    @futurebird Oh my god.

    I never realized there were people who hated the existence of my and my fellow anime fans' lovingly devoted websites.

    Because he couldn't stand anything that wasn't controlled by rich white men I bet?

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 4:12 PM

    @futurebird yes! You can see it when comparing Flickr, which embraces the web, with Instagram, who denies it, and in the end, who got to define the terms in which people share images.

    This repeated at nausea.

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 4:44 PM

    @futurebird lately I have noticed Google sending me to lookalike sites that used seo to operate as a scam, and they seem to have more financial motivation to secure higher placement

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 4:48 PM

    @futurebird

    i remember finding a web site dedicated to dart fletchings. i don't play darts but i was thrilled to see that any interest, no matter how niche, could be shared with anyone else interested.

    hits/likes, influencers, ad auctions, etc. have definitely not improved the internet.

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 5:02 PM

    @paul_ipv6 @futurebird I still have a couple of "forums" discussing niche interests that I visit once in a while, but it's fewer every year. All of the communities that were spread around are now all just "groups" on Facebook or sub-Reddits.
    The entire web feels somehow homogenized. It's as if the internet transformed from an interesting shopping district into a bland strip mall.

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 5:05 PM

    @Ambulocetus @futurebird

    i deleted facebook completely about 7 years ago. sadly, there are still groups and city/state official agencies that only use facebook that i can't see or access.

    not progress.

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 7:45 PM

    @discobeez @Ambulocetus @futurebird

    i have memory of web "rings" and one option was to get sent to a random site in the ring. it was fun. kind of like sitting down with a random volume of the encyclopedia, opening to a random page and just reading. ;)

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  • Jul 2, 2026, 5:19 AM

    @dr2chase @futurebird not just that, but uniformity. I want my site to be orderly in my particular way, but even other people who want orderly things should be free to make them their own way

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 7:43 PM

    @CarstenBoll
    That's the bitch of it. We keep making our own spaces to create and share, but their worldview demands that not be allowed, so they invade and fuck it all up.
    @futurebird

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  • Gwengwenverbsnouns@mastodon.social
    Jul 1, 2026, 6:56 PM

    @futurebird you can still find cool old internet places on wiby.me

    they weren't replaced so much as distracted away from with social media and google

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 10:50 PM

    @futurebird
    The unwashed masses aren't supposed to produce content! They're supposed to consume it, and only from the giant media companies, and watch advertisements and pay subscription fees for the privilege!
    What are you, some kind of commie?

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 11:23 PM

    @futurebird When ISPs started selling “consumer” plans with fast download and slow upload, a lot of old-school internet people were annoyed. Weren’t we all supposed to be equal online?

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  • Jul 2, 2026, 5:20 AM

    @fivetonsflax

    Fiber seems to have finally solved that problem. Same bandwidth both ways.

    Until now, I figured the bandwidth asymmetry of DSL and cable was some kind of intentional “consume, don't produce” design decision, but…well, fiber ISPs would be throttling upstream if that were the case, so I guess bandwidth asymmetry was nothing more than a technical trade-off this whole time?

    Happy to see it, at any rate. Uploading a software build now takes seconds instead of minutes.

    @futurebird

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  • Jul 2, 2026, 5:57 AM

    @argv_minus_one @fivetonsflax @futurebird *Puts hand up*

    Hi, I have worked in the ISP space before.

    Cable's asymmetry wasn't an intentional choice. But a design vestige of its history. Originally these systems were designed as a one-to-many (and one way) network. Radio waves were blasted down the wire and into the back of TV sets

    The lacking upload speed is because the networks were never *designed* with the idea of broadcasts coming back up the pipe. DOCSIS was grafted on to cable TV networks as an afterthought and required major cleanup of the design of the networks to accommodate them

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  • Jul 2, 2026, 7:18 AM

    @CursedSilicon @argv_minus_one @fivetonsflax @futurebird
    It was asymmetric because they want to partition the frequency spectrum used into separate upward and downward bands, to avoid the computationally heavy need for full echo cancellation, and they both expected and wanted end users to be mostly consumers of content, not producers.
    There was no _techincal_ reason it couldn't be reverse in the other direction, or fully symmetric (which existed: SDSL).
    1/

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  • Jul 2, 2026, 8:48 AM

    @brouhaha @CursedSilicon @argv_minus_one @fivetonsflax @futurebird Yep, symmetric DSL works fine if you need it. Some dedicated leased lines were SDSL and the some militaries use it to run megabit data over DON 10 field telephone wiring. Strange seeing binding posts and multiple 10G optical connections on the same router. I think power utilities are also using DSL to move data over pilot cables that previously carried tone signalling between substations

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  • Jul 2, 2026, 12:58 PM

    @CursedSilicon @argv_minus_one @fivetonsflax @futurebird yep, I came here to explain this but you already covered the bases. It's a similar story with ADSL/VDSL as well - symmetric DSL variants DO exist, but they have significantly reduced downstream bandwidth compared to their asymmetric cousins. Given the general traffic mix of a residential connection, the asymmetric profiles were generally a sensible tradeoff.

    Fun fact about DOCSIS: one of the side effects of grafting data service on top of cable TV networks is that all traffic is encapsulated in MPEG-2 transport stream frames - 188 byte (iirc?) chunks. Downstream traffic is also broadcast, so on early networks it was possible to see traffic destined for other customers. An encryption layer (BPI) was eventually added, giving each cable modem a separate encryption key

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  • Jul 2, 2026, 8:06 AM

    @argv_minus_one @fivetonsflax @futurebird

    Of course it was - as it is for every medium. Thus total capacity (channels) have to be split for either direction depending on usage profile. This includes ofc fiber.

    Physics is the same with every medium, no matter if Air, Cable or Fiber (or Phone in ye olde days with 1200/75 :))

    The huge difference between cable and fiber is the amount of total bandwidth available - which for cable is way smaller, so it makes sense to give more of those channels to downstream, as one downloads way more than uploads.

    In fiber the bandwidth of a single channel (single colour of light) can already be way more than all channels (frequencies) that could fit in a cable. full bidirectional speed can be gained by using just two channels, one in each direction and both at the same bandwidth - at least for the few GBit we use nowadays at home.

    If we reach the need for TBit connections at home, the need to split bandwidth will hit us again ... except I would not think very soon :))

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  • Jul 2, 2026, 8:43 AM

    @argv_minus_one @fivetonsflax @futurebird I think some of the assymetry of fibre is time slotting to share a wavelength through time slotting. Up and down use different colours, so if you give fractional UL you can save "colours", which can then be used for more DL.

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  • Jul 2, 2026, 3:43 AM

    @futurebird yeah it really is astonishing. A classic social media example of this is the difference between MySpace profiles (which had a lot going on to begin with could be further customized with CSS so were all over the place) and the very limited and sparse Facebook profile.

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  • Jul 2, 2026, 5:53 AM

    @futurebird I've said for a while that the internet as we know it (or a lot of us from "the 90's/early 2000's internet" knew it) has been rotting for a very long time

    Capitalism connected the overwhelming bulk of the planet to the internet and then ran headfirst into a problem: Nobody had any *money*

    Those endless deluges of boner pills and pop up ads for "free money" were a capitalism "pioneer species". Eeking out fractions of pennies at a time. The name of the game was how much sludge you could fling and how many inboxes you could flood with it.

    Then, after the turn of the century, they realized that malware could make money. Just turn peoples computers into email relays or DDoS vectors. Weigh the machine down with spyware and adware served up through garbage apps and P2P software (looking at you, KaZaA)

    Meanwhile the capitalists looked at services like Geocities and thought "how can we inject ourselves in the middle and extract rent for this?" and we ended up with the "social media era" of "web 2.0". We moved off the free hosting of ISP's and into "the cloud" and started normalizing shovelling ads everywhere on MySpace/Twitter/Facebook.

    Then the capitalists realized that they were leaving pennies (or fractions of pennies) on the table by not siphoning every single persons *data*. Surveillance capitalism became the name of the game to sell to advertisers.

    Now we're at the final, nauseating junction with the AI slop machine. They've spent 20 years picking away at every shred of flesh, so it's a mad dash to scoop up the bones and dump them all into a giant pot and boil down the marrow and hope that the slop that oozes out of that brew is palatable to force feed to the populus

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  • Jul 2, 2026, 12:14 PM

    @futurebird

    I feel like the bigger driver for ruining all that was less a hate for the creativity/individuality and more of the standard how do I make as much money as possible with the internet.

    And the answer over time evolved into getting as many people to spend a much time on my corporate site so I can sell ads with all the data I collect from them.

    Then big tech said, hold up, I can just track people everywhere they go, even better.

    They hated the former because they could monetize it

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  • Bitslingers-R-UsAnachronistJohn@zia.io
    Jul 1, 2026, 5:06 PM

    @futurebird It seems to be the same kind of energy as people who swear that because something is popular, it deserves to push out everything else. They then go and try to gatekeep and annoy the heck out of anyone enjoying the less popular things.

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 5:36 PM

    @futurebird
    🤦‍♀️ I hate that it's relatable. The thing about supremacists is they only care about what their community determines to be the best one, and all the runners up don't matter. It was easy for us tech colonizers to do the same thing we did with economics (using goods price as proxy for value) with websites (continuous users as proxy for value). But the rising price of eggs did not increase their real value my body still needs the same nutrients.

    Somehow these guys don't realize the contradiction between saying scarcity = goods price = stock value one one side and usercount = social value = share price on the other.

    Here are some phenomenal sites for your troubles:

    sheldonbrown.com/
    fieggen.com/shoelace/lacingmet

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 5:45 PM

    @futurebird the only way i can see this being a negative is when an independent website starts to present, say, medical/scientific/political bullshit and pretending to be a reputable source, but out of all the problems, that one wasn't solved by assimilating most of the internet into five websites -- in some way, that even made the problem worse, as same-looking profile pages make it even easier for anyone to pretend to be an expert source

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 6:39 PM

    @futurebird
    Board hops and web crawls.
    Those were excellent ways to explore the internet.

    First 'thing' I joined in '99, on my very own financed Gateway 4gb PC, was a mail group about the Art Bell radio show, run by someone named Happy Turtle. 😄

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 7:08 PM

    @futurebird They're authoritarian down to their bones. If nobody in authority tells them something has value, they don't believe it does.

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  • Jul 2, 2026, 2:47 AM

    @gooba42 @futurebird

    When I see something advertised, that usually makes me suspicious of it -- because they're spending money promoting it rather than making it a better product.

    I suspect if neurodivergent people were more the norm, "advertisements" as we know them simply would not exist.

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 7:22 PM

    @futurebird I still miss Spike Webb and Walter Miller's Trailer Park serial. It broke my heart to learn that latter was a Boston (?) marketing team but that story was hilarious and apparently, lost to time.

    I miss pre-W3 era and early W3 era. Commons design has its own ways and they are all worthy. Appreciate this thought from you. Agree mostly.

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 8:04 PM

    @futurebird all through the 1990s, and to a lesser extent during the early 2000s, most of the publishing industry, especially magazines and newspapers, was thoroughly hostile to the world wide web, and the fact that the world wide web enabled individuals and small underfunded groups to reach audiences without the enablement of traditional publishers greatly upset them. The WWW besmirched their beautiful oligopoly.

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 8:18 PM

    @futurebird On the bright side, many of us have been able to find each other on here. It's true that the disease is widespread. It's also true that we generate our own antibodies.

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 9:03 PM

    @futurebird I found so many things I never expected to like, things outside of my usual. That's what made the old net so fun. I miss the rabbit holes so deep you pop out the other side totally bewildered. I was so into the John Titor thing it was ridiculous. Still kinda am lmao
    Now it's just all the same. Everywhere. If it's not social media is promoting and selling something at every other post. The internet is a job now

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  • Jul 1, 2026, 9:13 PM

    @futurebird

    I remember early Ebay;
    your search for 'crystal cat sculpture' has yielded 214 results all unique basically the us was an online garage sale before the Power Sellers ruined it. Everything I posted sold. Now I am lucky to get one sale a month.

    now your search for 'crystal cat sculpture' has yielded 2,140M results out of which 95% are the same

    I miss old ebay.

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