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  • David Gerarddavidgerard@circumstances.run
    Oct 14, 2026, 12:31 PM

    jesus christ, Linux has had a 100% LLM takeover.

    this project is completely cooked.

    even after the AI bubble pop, it's not clear how to recover from this level of bullshit from this level of bullshitter.

    lwn.net/SubscriberLink/1099594

    > Linus Torvalds believes that blaming LLMs for the kernel community's problems is wrong, when the problem is LLM users who do not understand how to use them or how the kernel works. A properly trained LLM is a useful tool, but it takes a lot of time to reach that point.
    > Torvalds and others repeatedly said low-quality contributions from new developers should receive low priority, and that the community should stop trying to make contribution easy. Many developers said, repeatedly, that trying to mentor those developers is almost always a waste of time; they do not listen.
    > There is some concern about companies maintaining private kernels with LLM help, but there does not seem to be much to be done about it.
    > Kernel developers should not be required to use LLMs to work in the community, but those who do need to have enough resources available to generate acceptable results.
    The requirement to add Assisted-by tags to patches created with LLMs will be removed, but maintainers still want to know about how a patch was created.

    so how's it going already?

    > The development community is struggling to keep up with the flood of security patches, and will continue to for some time. Some of the most urgent fixes may bypass maintainers and go straight to Torvalds. Maintainers were cautioned against telling their employers about vulnerabilities before public disclosure happens.

    Really, I'm not out to suck as much ass as Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.

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  • firebreathingduckfirebreathingduck@vivaldi.net
    Oct 14, 2026, 7:11 PM

    @Rob_T_Firefly @kawa @davidgerard

    Yes, but judging by community complaints Microsoft, Google, and Apple have worked hard to bring their end users a new Deskslop experience too.

    So if we want something that works, we just need to use software that predates 2024. Until we get hacked.

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  • Kawaoneechankawa@mas.to
    Oct 14, 2026, 1:52 PM

    @kAlvaro The only sense in which there's Linux on the desktop in my house is the fact that my phone is literally sitting there, on top of a desk.

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  • Sin Vegasinvega@mas.to
    Oct 14, 2026, 3:17 PM

    @kawa @davidgerard approaching Skype levels of lining up the kick for years and then showing up too drunk and flinging a shoe into the sky instead

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  • MaddieM4MaddieM4@raphus.social
    Oct 14, 2026, 12:35 PM

    @davidgerard NetBSD is feeling really nice these days.

    Yes, the Nouveau is too old to recognize my graphics card, and the audio doesn't work for reasons I'm yet to investigage. It's not a setup everyone could accept. But for my needs, it's a relief to have a computer in my house that isn't subject to all this.

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  • Jarimarkusjmts@mastodontti.fi
    Oct 14, 2026, 2:14 PM

    @MaddieM4
    NetBSD's "Commit Guidelines" say that LLM code is "presumed to be tainted code, and must not be committed without prior written approval by core."

    This doesn't feel very clear about how much LLM code there is and will be in NetBSD.

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  • MaddieM4MaddieM4@raphus.social
    Oct 14, 2026, 2:25 PM

    @jmts the policy could be a bit stronger, but it's pretty hard to imagine LLM code getting into NetBSD without a loud debate and possible fork. And if the project did fork, the strict non-LLM side would probably be the original upstream, leaving the botlickers to fizzle out in a fork nobody asked for.

    Yes, that probably sounds like a lot of good faith, but there's context - they had a record funding year due to the anti-LLM stance in a sea of slop. They know their differentiating factors.

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  • Luna Lacteajackemled@furry.engineer
    Oct 14, 2026, 7:57 PM

    @jmts @MaddieM4 So far it seems to be none. I think that's there so a maintainer can personally tell someone to fuck off when they try to submit randomly generated code. At least the community is all in agreement that none of them want it in NetBSD.

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  • MaddieM4MaddieM4@raphus.social
    Oct 14, 2026, 8:37 PM

    @renardboy @davidgerard not nearly so bad as it used to be, though. I can expect at least a crappy version of sound to work OOTB. Bluetooth and low-latency (JACK) are extra credit. But the fact that I can expect to run Renoise and make music on *any* Linux computer is some progress.

    I look forward to being able to do multimedia production again without having to resort to a Linux backup machine someday. I'll push that forward to the degree I can.

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  • Max Lee :ablobcatbongoangry:the_moep@mastodon.de
    Oct 14, 2026, 3:52 PM

    @cstross First time hearing about that so not sure? It's just one of the projects on the no-ai list and seems a lot more memey than the other, boring OS. (Although I personally would love to go with NetBSD if they properly reject AI)

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  • leah & demons & ghouls, oh no 👻mewsleah@meow.social
    Oct 15, 2026, 1:23 AM

    @the_moep @cstross but how will the NetBSD team ever do that if all the people who think they should refuse to switch from everything else, even as everything else fills with slop, because they aren't? the natural conclusion for them to draw would be that nobody cares enough about slop for them to maintain their ban...

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  • Max Lee :ablobcatbongoangry:the_moep@mastodon.de
    Oct 15, 2026, 11:29 PM

    @mewsleah This assumes that a) all the people who think they should actually refuse to switch and b) that it matters how many users you have. I feel neither is true.

    And the only reason "number go up" seems like a necessary metric is because of infinite-gowth capitalism requiring it anyways.

    Remove that mentality and suddenly projects like that become worthwhile even without a lot of users.

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  • leah & demons & ghouls, oh no 👻mewsleah@meow.social
    Oct 16, 2026, 4:44 AM

    @the_moep what on earth are you talking about?

    you're projecting, i think, and desperate to refuse to acknowledge that you've made the perfect the enemy of the good - so desperate that you want to argue against what you wish i'd said, rather than what i actually did say

    (specifically, you appear to have conflated "ratio of users", which could be reasonably inferred from my words, with "number of users", which can't; and then used that conflation to justify superimposing something generally disliked ["number go up"] onto what i said in order to not have to pay it any attention. that's not a good faith response.)

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  • Max Lee :ablobcatbongoangry:the_moep@mastodon.de
    Oct 16, 2026, 9:32 AM

    @mewsleah The same back at you tbh.

    Your point as I understand it is that there is no need for a ban because nobody cares. (Based on the fact that nobody will use NetBSD because of the ban?)

    My point is that I do not believe that nobody will use it because of it. Hell I'm seriously considering switching my Laptop away from Linux r/n, the only thing that's stopping me is energy/time, not that I don't care. So your "all the people" is already proven wrong by my existance alone. That was my point a)

    And even if by "all" you didn't literally mean everyone but the commonly missused (and populistic rhetoric btw.) way of saying "a lot of people of not clearly defined quantity", my point b) adresses that as it doesn't and shouldn't matter how many users use something morally and ethically good, it still stays worthwhile to do. Only capitalism doesn't honor that.

    And the solution here is to finally finish our fight against capitalism.

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  • leah & demons & ghouls, oh no 👻mewsleah@meow.social
    Oct 16, 2026, 9:36 AM

    @the_moep your understanding of my point is, sadly, completely wrong. i mean, completely wrong.

    i am very much in favour of a ban, and as soon as i can overcome my inertia i will be switching to NetBSD as much as is practical because of their position.

    what motivated my reply to you is that you appeared to be arguing against switching to NetBSD because you didn't think their ban was strong enough. i was attempting to point out the absurdity of that position.

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  • Max Lee :ablobcatbongoangry:the_moep@mastodon.de
    Oct 16, 2026, 9:39 AM

    @mewsleah
    I see, well I did not understand it like that (obviously) as you literally argued for the opposite of what you actually wanted to say. Just saying what your point is is way easier in non-verbal communication...

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  • Max Lee :ablobcatbongoangry:the_moep@mastodon.de
    Oct 16, 2026, 9:48 AM

    @mewsleah
    Also thinking about it I do not agree with your actual point either: If better solutions exist, I think one should support and use those. Because if you didn't you would show them that you don't actually care about them banning generative AI and thet might stop upholding such a ban.

    On the other hand: If you use them you are showing all which don't have such a strict ban that it's worth it going with it as people clearly care.

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  • Max Lee :ablobcatbongoangry:the_moep@mastodon.de
    Oct 14, 2026, 4:02 PM

    @cstross @davidgerard All that I can find online is that they used some nazi imagery ironically at some point in time, similarly to how punk culture tried to deal with skinheads trying to take over I suppose?

    I can imagine that happening during the era when 4chan went full on nazi jokes (the ones which later lead to Trump being elected) and them playing with those?

    (From the discussions here and here)

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  • moralrecordingsmoralrecordings@digipres.club
    Oct 14, 2026, 12:47 PM

    @davidgerard "the community should stop trying to make contribution easy." is an incredible statement. Yes, everyone was spoiled by the extremely friendly and welcoming kernel submission experience, jumping through 900 flaming hoops on the LKML to get screamed at.

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  • Dan Sugalskiwordshaper@weatherishappening.network
    Oct 14, 2026, 1:44 PM

    @moralrecordings @davidgerard real strong “old men yell at those goddamn kids to get off their lawn” vibes from that whole thing.

    Open source projects do definitely need to think about succession and passing projects on to the next generation, but I’m pretty sure “fuck you all, piss off” isn’t going to go down in history as one of the better plans for this.

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  • James Endres Howelljameshowell@fediscience.org
    Oct 14, 2026, 8:01 PM

    1995: Golly I sure do admire this #Torvalds fellow

    2001: Oh

    2007: Ohhh

    2012: Dear me

    2018: So Linus is ... apologizing? And ... taking a leave of absence? In order to get ... therapy? Wow I genuinely admire him again!

    2020: I mean he could have just told us all to kiss his ass instead of going to therapy. And he still could at any time just say "everybody fuck off, you can fork it!" Except that's obviously totally impossible

    2026: Welp, good to know some things never really change

    @mirabilos @moralrecordings @wordshaper @davidgerard

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  • Woozle Hypertwinwoozle@toot.cat
    Oct 14, 2026, 2:23 PM

    @davidgerard Possible solution: ban them until people learn how to use them right (and also after all the environment-destroying datacenters have been decommissioned and the spare parts given away to open-source projects and everyone has UBI so artists can live and create without having to serve the copyright juggernaut).

    Otherwise, Torvalds's argument kinda reeks of "guns don't kill people -- people kill people".

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  • Darby Linesangry_drunk@union.place
    Oct 14, 2026, 2:37 PM

    @davidgerard The Slopocalypse is going to result in generational damage. Like, "we forgot how to make concrete for 500 years*" damage.

    *yes I know that's not really a thing.

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  • DeltaWyeDeltaWye@tiggi.es
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:14 PM

    @angry_drunk @davidgerard I mean… that doesn’t sound too impossible… we see history as constantly moving forward like a roller coaster up a lift hill with a clanking safety ratchet. But that’s not how things have ever actually worked.

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  • jmeleskyjmelesky@tinylad.social
    Oct 14, 2026, 2:37 PM

    @davidgerard

    Linus Torvalds believes that blaming LLMs for the kernel community’s problems is wrong, when the problem is LLM users who do not understand how to use them or how the kernel works.

    I once told someone “it’s not that I dislike leaf blowers, it’s that I don’t think they should be gas-powered, people are usually using them to export a problem to somebody else instead of solving it, and people are constantly using them for weird things like drying out puddles instead of moving leaves into nice collectible piles.”

    My interlocutor responded: “Okay, so you dislike leaf blowers.” And she was right.

    I think about that conversation a lot.

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  • flere-imsaho 🇺🇦mawhrin@circumstances.run
    Oct 14, 2026, 2:40 PM

    @davidgerard this feels like they finally get to the point where the old boys won't need to onboard new developers, which is a perfect strategy for the next 3-8 years, and afterwards the old devs will literally start dying.

    and thus the field for a novel operating system opens.

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  • Alexeadanila@mastodon.social
    Oct 14, 2026, 3:06 PM

    @davidgerard “the community should stop trying to make contribution easy.” Oh, were they trying? I couldn’t tell.

    So then, as a matter of policy, it is difficult to contribute as an attempt at discouraging low-effort patches. And they also do not want to teach new people how to contribute. But spam bots don’t get discouraged, so they’re still around. So now they complain about the patch spam and blame new contributors but see no problem with the system. Fascinating.

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  • okanogen VerminEnemyFromWithinOkanogen@mastodon.social
    Oct 14, 2026, 3:08 PM

    @davidgerard
    That entire discussion was one big long category error. A #LLM does not "write code" just like it does not "write a poem". It creates a MODEL of code, or a MODEL of a poem, which a human being then decides to USE as code or USE as a poem. Just like a urinal wasn't a piece of art until Marcel Duchamp displayed it as art, signed by R. Mutt 1917.
    People who "don't know how to use it" are confused by the difference between a map and the actual landscape.

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