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  • Moritz 💤🏳️‍🌈moritzboth@chaos.social
    Oct 1, 2026, 11:22 AM

    @Natasha_Jay I totally agree, that's why I'd like to know who said it this way first. Already searched for it, but it is probably not easy to find, the web is full of that quote

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  • Forgotten HeroForgottenHero@toot.wales
    Oct 1, 2026, 10:57 AM

    @Natasha_Jay

    I've tried being 'The One' in the past.
    It's expensive.
    I've been side-lined, missed promotions and emptied rooms by just walking into them.
    I've lost jobs, friends in high places who were never real friends.
    And yes the females at work shunned me too. Every time.

    You are part of the 50% against the manosphere and have some backup. Try doing it alone with none.

    Sorry.
    Rant over.

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  • EndlessMasonEndlessMason@hachyderm.io
    Oct 1, 2026, 11:54 AM

    @ForgottenHero @Natasha_Jay
    Sounds like you're doing good work

    Quick note though, being "against the manosphere" doesn't read quite right when you've just used the term "females" like a ferengi or a nature documentarian or a straight up manosphere chud

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  • Ginsgins@mastodon.gamedev.place
    Oct 1, 2026, 12:09 PM

    @ForgottenHero Speaking from the perspective of a bullying target, rather than a woman, which seems similar to me in many situations:
    a bullying target often doesn't want somebody else to decide when and how to fight their fights. They might instead want the reassurance, that they can pick the fight that concerns them when they feel it is the right moment, and the others have _their_ back, instead of the bully's.

    Hope that's not too far off @Natasha_Jay

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  • KeithWMKeithWM@mastodon.social
    Oct 1, 2026, 9:20 PM

    @gins Why would that be too far off? It's your right to voice your concerns about people promoting something that might harm you.

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  • lucaluc0x61@mastodon.gamedev.place
    Oct 1, 2026, 11:35 AM

    @Natasha_Jay I admit to be in the silent group. Not just for that case, but about so many other facts where I feel I should stand up.
    This is quite embarrassing to admit, but it's my confirm I'm a misanthrope: I just don't have a didactical example to show. I don't believe anymore in giving a better education to these people.

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  • I. L. VilliamDrude@literatur.social
    Oct 1, 2026, 4:25 PM

    @luc0x61 @Natasha_Jay

    Start small:
    - do something after the situation, like telling people "that made me uncomfortable" or "I wish I had said something".
    - do something outside the difficult situations, saying "I just read that book about [feminist topic], it got me thinking ..."
    - listen to people who do this already

    You'll probably notice that this takes courage, too. Practice. Be visible. It gets easier. Find people who like this version of you. Encourage them, let them encourage you.

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  • Eyegrb090423@mastodon.social
    Oct 1, 2026, 5:32 PM

    @Drude @luc0x61@mastodon.gamedev.place @Natasha_Jay

    Well said. This is a good tactic. It's difficult for many, but this is a way to start. 👍💪

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  • lucaluc0x61@mastodon.gamedev.place
    Oct 2, 2026, 6:34 AM

    @Drude @Natasha_Jay Thanks, this is a nice and encouraging answer.

    My second thought goes anyway to the logic of groups, that I blame every time for these events to happen.
    I'm not sure that any measure is having a proper positive effect, till we keep on considering people in groups by gender, ethnicity and so on. Then promoting the good and fair behavior to humanity, before the groups above, should be the objective. If anyrhing still classifies humans first, is doomed to leave things as now r.

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  • I. L. VilliamDrude@literatur.social
    Oct 2, 2026, 6:46 AM

    @luc0x61 @Natasha_Jay

    There's another thought: Break patterns. Be atypical. The more confusion we create, categories become less and less meaningful.

    And I can't encourage men enough to do the "forbidden" stuff. Watch a cheesy romcom and do your nails. Start a book club. Whatever feels too female to do, give it a try.

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  • 塩でいいよzombiecide@polyglot.city
    Oct 1, 2026, 7:17 PM

    @luc0x61

    You don't need to show a better example, you just need to show them they're lame.

    Men make these jokes to strengthen group adhesion and ensure they're high up in the group hierarchy and can set the tone. But people who do this are fundamentally cowards hiding behind the option to claim 'it's just a joke', and that means ridicule can be very effective at shutting them up, more than values or role models or anything.

    @Natasha_Jay

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  • annabeeannabee92@mastodon.social
    Oct 1, 2026, 11:58 AM

    @Natasha_Jay I've been thinking a lot about how racism works the same. It's really impressive how easy of a time people have pretending like discrimination isn't happening even though it's happening everywhere all the time. I feel like the system is upheld most by people who remain silent.

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  • RobotistryRobotistry@fediscience.org
    Oct 1, 2026, 12:05 PM

    @Natasha_Jay
    I've been a woman in the room with two men, when one has referred to the other's pregnant wife so offensively that I would have thought it would have caused a major breach, and I was silent.

    It's hard to know what to say in the moment, when you're reeling from shock that someone thought that was an okay thing to say to anyone, much less a colleague or friend.

    I don't believe any of the three of us in that conversation were "good guys". I do think the insulting guy thought he was being funny, and the other guy was his friend and took it in that spirit. And I felt like it was his role to speak out, since it was his wife and he would know better than I just how upset (or not) she'd be about it.

    But since then, I've tried to be more prepared to speak out.

    And speaking out has been a tremendous relief, even as it has lost me opportunities. It feels like putting the emotional work of coping with their words back on their shoulders, where it belongs.

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  • Rickd6Rickd6@mstdn.ca
    Oct 1, 2026, 1:01 PM

    @Natasha_Jay @Robotistry the ‘act’ of silence is not a strong enough objection for the offensive individual to change their behavior. Even if there’s no one supporting them in that situation they will just voice it again later hopeful of finding a receptive audience.

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  • Bogdan Buduroiubudududuroiu@hachyderm.io
    Oct 1, 2026, 1:39 PM

    @Natasha_Jay how could one differentiate a group of 10 men that had a conflict about this sexual joke, from one that hasn't? "Most men are the same" seems like a vibes-based conclusion.

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  • wishchainwishchain@mastodon.social
    Oct 1, 2026, 1:39 PM

    @Natasha_Jay you shouldnt wonder! It's woman who are attempting to hype feminism that only exists cause of the digital thievery on other people! Its woman, every day mentally using the genitals of others to be able to think when using dicks muscles mentally as brain making impotent the men globall step by step. It's woman, every day trying to control mind and movement of men globally while mentally being with hackers who steal and manipulate whole world.

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  • wishchainwishchain@mastodon.social
    Oct 1, 2026, 1:45 PM

    @Natasha_Jay Be happy to not be one of those woman and take what men do ;)
    If you would be one of those manipulative woman, they wouldnt even be sexual to you! For woman it looks like those manipulative woman who even want to call their terrorism a carreer are normal!understandable in things of the wide amount of people who got no idea bout the system!
    but, if you maybe remember the stories saying that you shall recycle all your old things and buy new ones for th world not dies?! It was woman!

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  • ZenHeathen 🇨🇦 🎃ZenHeathen@beige.party
    Oct 1, 2026, 2:40 PM

    @Natasha_Jay Of additional note, even if there's no woman around to witness this, that one guy goes away feeling perfectly fine and justified, because he believes that all other nine agree with him. He is further emboldened to do it again.

    Indeed, some of the others may start to feel that it's more okay than they had thought, and might move further toward doing it themselves.

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  • 7heo7heo@ieji.de
    Oct 1, 2026, 3:06 PM

    @Natasha_Jay

    I mean, this is 100% correct. And we should absolutely go further when examining the cause: toxic masculinity is such, that those who fake a laugh or stay silent, do so in the fear for their own personal wellbeing.

    It is exactly similar to bullying. Only the bully is having fun, and ultimately, no one profits from it.

    And, to reiterate: I completely agree with your point, I don't think it is okay to stay silent and follow the crowd when in disagreement, that's how we end up in terrible societies.

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  • withinitywithinity@mastodon.gamedev.place
    Oct 1, 2026, 3:09 PM

    @Natasha_Jay Whenever I see posts like this I understand the place they come from. It's real. The patriarchal society we live in is abominable.

    I am a man who has stood up for women, trans people, and others in the work place, and in casual encounters. Someone who has lost opportunities over it and been the odd one out. it's often thankless and results in being steam rolled. I won't stop trying to help but the entire situation sucks... Though we are rare, there are men who are trying their best

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  • Verena RuppVerenaRupp@vivaldi.net
    Oct 1, 2026, 3:13 PM

    @Natasha_Jay I remember, years ago, after the whole "locker room talk" thingy was on the news, I complained about this to a male friend. He said that many of his friends talked like that. I looked him dead in the eye and told him that he needed better friends.

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  • Sophiasophou@piaille.fr
    Oct 1, 2026, 3:50 PM

    @Natasha_Jay I must say that this also unfortunately applies to women (including me..). I used to chuckle to fit in. Now I try to speak up but it's hard. But (too) many times I just keep my mouth shut.
    Because I'm dumbstruck. Stunned.
    It's juste later that I think to myself "stupid, why didn't you say something ??!"

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  • Duckbilled Plattypus.pattykimura@beige.party
    Oct 1, 2026, 7:22 PM

    @sophou @Natasha_Jay

    I wonder about this when white women are silent when someone says some shitty racist thing to me.
    Your choice to be silent and still is a second cut of the knife.
    Your silence is not unnoticed.
    Do something.

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  • Noah, brought to you by Mutual of Omaha and PBS viewers like youmonkeyninja@10base2.dev
    Oct 1, 2026, 4:13 PM

    @Natasha_Jay First time I called someone out publicly for saying something shitty and sexist I thought I was going to die from having everyone stare at me. I definitely sympathize with the folks who read this and think, "I can't speak up, I hate having the spotlight on me." For them I'll say, it's a muscle like any other that can be strengthened with practice and it gets easier. It doesn't have to be a 6 minute public excoriation, just a quick "My man, what you just said is *not* OK and not funny" is often enough. It's a muscle worth building because if enough of us do it can literally change the world.

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  • fishhead_125fishhead_125@mastodon.social
    Oct 1, 2026, 4:19 PM

    @Natasha_Jay

    Reminds me of an argument I had with a white, privileged cis guy, 2 days ago, who told me, that I should feel more with men, who are torn in society's expectations & therefore seemed to be bad guys, but society would make them like that...

    I laughed out loud, could not take that serious at all & answered him in a very sarcastic way.

    Now I am the bad girl, being rude, aggressive and overemotional. Must be really hard to live in a world made by men for men & being privileged...

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  • Hot Dog WaterGGMcBG@mstdn.plus
    Oct 1, 2026, 4:20 PM

    @Natasha_Jay

    Boomy, finely-primped golf man approached my booth one day, interested in my work. A thing prompted him to tell me he 'does stand-up'. He told me his best joke.
    It was about his wife. I honestly don't even remember it.
    I said no, shook my head.
    He told me another one.
    I said uh-uh.
    He then defended his 40-year marriage.
    I told him about my 25-year one that I still don't tell jokes like that about my wife.
    He never dropped his fake smile before leaving.

    Men are rotted.

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  • DonCCDonChacale@mastodon.social
    Oct 1, 2026, 4:54 PM

    @Natasha_Jay

    this is largely true.

    as a man there is also a part of me that asks a few more subtle questions.

    are all sexual jokes off limits? so sexual jokes themselves are bad?
    it says " AT a woman" that doesn't sound like a joke to me. rather a sexualized comment/cat-call/sarcasm/insult.

    is the double entendre dead?

    all in all its f'd up that women get the short shrift and a lotta men are assholes or worse.

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  • Duckbilled Plattypus.pattykimura@beige.party
    Oct 1, 2026, 7:17 PM

    @DonChacale

    If men want to make sexual jokes where they are the butt of the jokes to other men, okay. If you make sexual jokes about women, then no.

    Sexual jokes are not like breathing. They are not essential to existence. If they are, yeah, you have a problem.

    Imo.

    @Natasha_Jay

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  • DonCCDonChacale@mastodon.social
    Oct 1, 2026, 11:16 PM

    @pattykimura @Natasha_Jay

    as I stated... it's a nuance that I am thinking of. what the hell IS a "sexual joke"? do you know one? I don't know any. what I have in mind is more like banter in mixed company that might have to do with sex. sexual jokes compared to breathing, hmm. why introduce patent absurdity?

    am guessing what the initial post is REALLY about is sexual comments that aren't appropriate. and that when called to task lame people will say " I was just joking"

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  • Denis Kurzdenis@ruhr.social
    Oct 4, 2026, 8:41 PM

    @Natasha_Jay Let's assume there are other women present. How many of them are silent?

    From the pov of the offended women, this might be a men-vs-women situation, in which case her conclusion would make sense entirely. But those silent men are probably uncomfortable, too. I get the reasoning behind those generalizations. But if how your reaction is judged depends on your gender, there's a word for it: sexism.

    The aggression displayed by a sexist joke will intimidate people of all genders.

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