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  • Neil Brownneil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:16 PM

    A question, please:

    You are about to launch a small (for now, anyway) consumer-facing business.

    You want to have a qualified lawyer:

    * review your terms of service (~10 pages), and fix any problems.

    * review your privacy notice, and fix any problems. You do not have a record of processing activities, and you need the review to check that the lawful bases are consistent with the GDPR, as well as everything else.

    * review planned communications with users

    * provide written answers to ~25 questions related to the law as it applies to your business and its plans, including GDPR compliance and international transfers.

    Question: what charge would you consider to be reasonable for this?

    (Not what you think a lawyer might charge you, but what you think would be reasonable.)

    #law #freelancer #business

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Replies

  • Neil Brownneil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:31 PM

    For anyone who has not guessed, this is pretty much exactly what happens when someone has generated their terms, privacy notice, communications, and probably their business plan, using genAI.

    The email asking for a quote looks almost identical from request to request, with the subject line syntax being a giveaway.

    I've had multiple of these this week.

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  • Bruno Girinbrunogirin@mastodon.me.uk
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:19 PM

    @neil I guess that's probably 2 or 3 days of work to do well so I'd say somewhere between £2k and £5k depending on time and daily rate?

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  • Jason Lefkowitzjalefkowit@hachyderm.io
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:59 PM

    @brunogirin @neil That was around where I came down as well. I'd expect document review (TOS, privacy policy) to be pretty straightforward -- maybe an hour or two for each doc. But "please review all our client communications" and "please answer these 25 questions" are kind of open-ended, depending on how much detail the client is wanting/needing.

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  • Jason Lefkowitzjalefkowit@hachyderm.io
    Oct 14, 2026, 6:00 PM

    @brunogirin @neil (And even the doc review can be worse if the client is expecting to hand you a bunch of gibberish and have you rewrite the whole thing into something coherent)

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  • fakfak@cupoftea.social
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:21 PM

    @neil oof, that seems a big job, especially the 25 questions. I'm out of the loop on hourly
    rates but wouldn't be surprised if the price was 5 figures.

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  • Dr Ro SmithRhube@wandering.shop
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:21 PM

    @neil It would depend on how long it would take the lawyer to do these things, which is a thing I am unsure of, having never paid a lawyer for something like this as I would not expect to be able to afford it.

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  • Stuart Gibsonstuart@cyberpunk.gmbh
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:22 PM

    @neil I think I’d wince at £500, but consider it reasonable.

    And I suspect that is massively off the mark of what it actually costs.

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  • Sarah Jamie Lewissarahjamielewis@mastodon.social
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:23 PM

    @neil

    If it was just the review of ToS / Privacy notice / communications then I'd think low-mid four figures was reasonable.

    The written answers to 25 tailored questions feels like an expensive analysis for a new small business and depending on the exact nature of the questions and the business I think I'd find anything south of 50k "reasonable".

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  • Paulpwaring@social.xk7.net
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:24 PM

    @neil It is tricky to think what would be reasonable as the only reference points I have for amount of work are at the extremes (conveyancing and judicial review - the latter of which I thought was wholly unreasonable).

    If I was paying, I would probably consider £5,000-10,000 to be reasonable. If someone was considerably below that I'd wonder if they were cutting corners.

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  • Peter Brownpeterbrown@mastodon.scot
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:24 PM

    @neil in many businesses the first contract is offered for below market value to get the customer on side.
    However, you hardly get any legal advice or under £1000 so I would suggest £2000 as a baseline.

    Make sure they understand you’re doing it for less than the going rate because you’re enthusiastic about their company, not because you’re desperate for work.

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  • Wanneswannes@mastodon.vlaanderen
    Oct 14, 2026, 6:05 PM

    @peterbrown @neil no reason to go below market value to get a foot in the door.

    How are you going to price the next job?

    What I might do is go full price but give a discount on the NEXT job. So at least you get paid full and not get some vague promises to maybe get paid full price for some other job that might never come.

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  • Neil Brownneil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk
    Oct 14, 2026, 6:06 PM

    @wannes @peterbrown

    It is also worth bearing in mind that the explicit goal of this post was to hear what people on the commissioning side of this kind of work might consider to be reasonable, rather than supplier side pricing strategy :)

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  • Wanneswannes@mastodon.vlaanderen
    Oct 14, 2026, 6:09 PM

    @neil @peterbrown yeah I know, sorry for hijacking your thread.

    I have no idea of the UK market and GBP pricing.

    It’s not the review of the (AI generated) terms and conditions. It’s the 25 open ended questions that are the big questionmark hovering around this fee quote

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  • Peter Brownpeterbrown@mastodon.scot
    Oct 14, 2026, 9:26 PM

    @neil @wannes I think I would still stand by my original estimate.. I’m not keen on a future discount because quite frankly the objective of a lawyer should be to build an ongoing relationship with a client not based on money but based on good advice & reliability. The lawyer should aim to become that clients go to in any potential problem.
    Offering discounts for jobs sounds too much like bathroom installation.

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  • Elliotelliotblackburn@fosstodon.org
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:31 PM

    @neil for document reviews, maybe 1-3k depending on the length and complexity.

    No idea on the 25 questions to be honest, it would depend on how complex they were, and how big of a problem it would be if we got them wrong.

    In total maybe somewhere between 3-5k as a rough idea? Possibly more if data transfers were a really big part of the business operations.

    Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if the price was higher.

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  • Elliotelliotblackburn@fosstodon.org
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:34 PM

    @neil If I got something like this in my line of work, I'd probably say it would be cheaper to come to me and let me handle the creation, rather than asking me to review something genAI has spat out from a novice prompt.. Would that be the same case here?

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  • École des Bro-Artsaphyr@woof.group
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:36 PM

    @neil The ToS review alone I'd expect to run 2-5 grand. Each of those questions could be hundreds to thousands USD.

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  • École des Bro-Artsaphyr@woof.group
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:37 PM

    @neil I'm actually in a similar boat with "incomprehensible requests to verify software correctness". Been meaning to write a page about it, because 95% of them never translate to paying clients and it's becoming a serious drag on my time.

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  • That "el" person on IRCel_on_libera@fosstodon.org
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:39 PM

    @neil those 25 questions are absolutely going to include stuff that they generated answers for, or will argue about your answers based on "but the AI said..."

    You might want to add a hazard fee just for that psychic damage.

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  • Quinn Rhodes (he/him)onqueerstreet@mastodon.social
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:45 PM

    @neil I don’t think I have anything helpful to contribute here, but I am curious about the subject line syntax if you’re up for sharing!

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  • d.riftd_rift@beige.party
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:07 AM

    @neil my experience with software code review is that 10x the fee won't cover the cognitive hazard pay.

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  • d.riftd_rift@beige.party
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:08 AM

    @neil also if they feed your answers back into the ai and it trains on them... doesn't that violate a bunch of things somewhere along the way.

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  • Neil Brownneil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:11 AM

    @d_rift Arguably my copyright, but I am not going to lose sleep over that.

    They might lose the ability to argue that my advice was privileged, but that is up to them and, in the context of the advice sought here, not particularly impactful I'd have thought.

    The worse, and more likely, scenario, is that it turns into a disagreement over the work, which takes time and effort to resolve.

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  • d.riftd_rift@beige.party
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:15 AM

    @neil Pretty much exactly why I try to get contractors to do lump sum and they try to get hourly. 😅 I mean, I have to respect both sides on that overall. It's annoying when people take your time arguing and you should definitely be paid for your time. Simultaneously, I have a personal lawyer who does nothing without at least monthly reminders and charges me for reminding him, and a corporate lawyer who submits things I have to proofread to shreds then debits us four figures an hour for fixing their typos I caught. Every contract balance is a gamble.

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  • Neil Brownneil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:26 AM

    @d_rift

    > I have a personal lawyer who does nothing without at least monthly reminders and charges me for reminding him, and a corporate lawyer who submits things I have to proofread to shreds then debits us four figures an hour for fixing their typos I caught

    How is either of those acceptable?!

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  • d.riftd_rift@beige.party
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:32 AM

    @neil In one case I have yet to find an alternative, which has become a problem. (If you happen to know anyone doing Czech citizenship matters in Prague, I believe by this point I have cause to transfer the matter to someone faster.) In the other, the choice of firm doesn't rest on my shoulders.

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  • d.riftd_rift@beige.party
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:49 AM

    @neil I've now adjusted my account boost setting to allow it. Hopefully that will propagate suitably.

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  • Neil Brownneil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk
    Oct 15, 2026, 7:16 AM

    @d_rift Only followers can quote that toot, so I have made a follow request. If you accept that, then I should be able to quote boost it :)

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  • Stephen Wuebkerstephen@stephenwuebker.social
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:35 PM

    @neil USA person here, so things are definitely different, but if I were launching a new business, I'd likely use pre-vetted boilerplate documents for terms of service, privacy notice, etc. So, I'd expect those to just require a cursory review to make sure the documents are completed. Probably an hour billed, tops. The real work seems to be the list of questions. I'm guessing 10-15 billed hours? I also don't know anything about rates, but I would guess all-in ~$2500+USD or about £2000

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  • ahnlakahnlak@kavlak.uk
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:38 PM

    @neil I was imagining a few hundred quid until I re-read the question and spotted that the *lawyer* was answering the 25 questions.

    At that point, I'd assume the lawyer would (quite reasonably) suggest an hourly rate because that's a ridiculously open ended ask

    (my initial guesstimate also assumed good faith from the business and a decent attempt to understand the potential issues in advance - considerably more if it's all "first principles")

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  • Jessie Rowbum :progress_pride:jess@blop.social
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:39 PM

    @neil I would think something in the range of £2.5k, more depending on complexity.

    If this is "reviewing some slop legalese" though then I'd probably push that to £5k as it'd no doubt involve filtering it through your experience, which I believe would take longer than a ground-up rewrite from boilerplate.

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  • Sheddisheddi@mstdn.party
    Oct 14, 2026, 5:53 PM

    @neil my contracts are never phrased this way but when I'm commissioning engineering analysis the final report tends to work out as one page for every £1000 spent.

    Want some basic rules-based analysis of a simple mechanical structure? £20k and you'd typically get a 20-page report.

    Add on some FEA or CFD? It becomes a £60k contract and you'll get a 60-page report.

    Need a slightly more complicated system substantiating against industry norms? £250k and you'll get a 200-300 page safety report.

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  • NeonkAaank@sns.neonka.info
    Oct 14, 2026, 6:09 PM

    @neil
    Irrelevant topic, just to share a case. Recently we aimed to start working with a guy, who aimed to start a business and have been looking for partners. His ideas may be overlapping with our internal developments. He shared a 17-pages NDA. In fact it was also a proto 1-way contract of him sharing a single presentation (only this was covered), and us evaluating, providing feedback. With deadlines, obligations, deliverables, and us be liable for virtually any breach (or assumption of it) from either side.
    I asked where he got it. He said some AI generated it, but he demonstrated it to his lawyer, and this guy told him everything was fine.
    Not saying, we ended our relations somewhere at this point

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  • Wanneswannes@mastodon.vlaanderen
    Oct 14, 2026, 6:19 PM

    @neil

    Reviewing them would be more work than drafting them yourselves I guess? ToS-review in Belgium would be around 600 EUR (but 10 pages seems a lot more than we would have). (Some go lower and promise to deliver in 48 hours, but meh, don't do that)

    Privacy statement, would depend on the acivities. Also 600 EUR.

    25 questions: No idea, this is a minefield. Have them draft 10 questions up front before giving a fee. I don't like to bill hourly, but this one, I'd might do hourly.
    IANAL

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  • Ryanfullywoolly@mastodon.social
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:03 AM

    @neil I was gonna say 300 USD assuming quick boilerplate for terms to be adopted, but when I saw the 25 questions I jumped up to 2-3k USD. Sounds like a lot of back and forth and a lot of time for everyone.

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  • Ryanfullywoolly@mastodon.social
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:10 AM

    @neil I guess my caveat at this stage is most people venturing into these waters for the first time are in the "I don't know what I don't know realm." I wouldn't expect their questions to be deep analysis.

    It'd be far easier to give them something that complies and helping them pretzel themselves into it instead of taking theirs and trying to build GDPR on top with all the potential contradictions. And the questions would be them trying to do that.

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  • Neil Brownneil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:13 AM

    @fullywoolly There is definitely an angle of "you are not asking the right questions; let me help you", but that requires work in itself, to understand what the right questions are, plus, they've got an AI tool generating something different...

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  • Ryanfullywoolly@mastodon.social
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:59 AM

    @neil Being guided to the right questions and helping change the way they think about it sounds priceless.

    Ahh yes the Avian Intelligence. A wise man once said "To think for yourself, you must question authority" and he was turned into quite a villain. I guess this is a natural extension of that.

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  • Gavin_calmdowndear@mastodon.social
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:03 AM

    @neil nothing because I intend to do a lot of crime and therefore my future lawyer will be grateful for all the exposure.

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  • The Tattooed Nonna 🧙‍♀️Tattooed_Mummy@beige.party
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:04 AM

    @neil if this lawyer is guaranteeing this work. So I can relax. Then at least £5000. But I don't really know how long this might take?

    Edited for a zero lol. I used to be paid £500 for a standard blog post

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  • GerardGerardThornley@hachyderm.io
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:35 AM

    @neil What would be reasonable is probably more than I'd feel able to pay.

    It seems like quite a bit of work, relying on your professional training and experience, and potentially helping to avoid some unpleasant pitfalls.

    Yet when starting out, money is tight, there's a lot of 'legal admin', and those pitfalls are potential not certain (and no-one would be starting a business if they didn't have at least some appetite for risk).

    From your point of view, I imagine it's quite a difficulty - you want to offer a good service to your customers, perhaps look forward to seeing them succeed, and presumably don't want to see them get into difficulties because of problems good legal advice could have avoided.
    I expect you want to offer an affordable rate, but you still need to pay your own bills, and what some feel is affordable might not cover your costs.

    I've been startup customer looking for accountancy before now, and felt the prices were out of proportion with the amount of work needed. It got me wondering whether a model based on a share of future profit would be workable? But could that create a conflict of interest?

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  • GerardGerardThornley@hachyderm.io
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:37 AM

    @neil Oh, I didn't guess the genAI aspect. Definitions of reasonable might need adjusting in that case.

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  • Neil Brownneil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:42 AM

    @GerardThornley

    > a model based on a share of future profit would be workable?

    I think that this sometimes happens, perhaps by virtue of taking an equity stake as payment.

    Would I want to do that for a small company looking to launch a vibe coded app (for example)? No!

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  • DaanloDaanlo@mastodon.social
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:54 AM

    @neil ballpark 2.000€.

    But it really depends on the 25 questions. If they are complex, I would expect more.

    To be honest 25 questions seems a lot
    at this stage. I am getting advice on docs. So I wouldn‘t expect to have more than 5 questions or so at this stage. (I‘ll probably have 5-10 questions after the lawyer sends me the feedback).

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  • Tanyasolderandchaos@mastodon.me.uk
    Oct 15, 2026, 6:56 AM

    @neil if I was just starting a small business, I would possibly be able to afford £500, but I know that this is not what the work is worth. So I’d have to do my best to figure it out on my own. My first year turnover probably wouldn’t even be what it should actually cost.

    And yes I know false economy etc, but also reality.

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  • Neil Brownneil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk
    Oct 15, 2026, 7:15 AM

    @solderandchaos

    Yes, I think that there could well be - in a lot of cases - a discrepancy between what is *affordable* to the client, and what the work/risk is worth to the lawyer!

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  • Giles of the Junglegilester45@twit.social
    Oct 15, 2026, 7:07 AM

    @neil I've never contracted a lawyer, but I'd expect - perhaps naively - the right lawyer to know the answers without extensive research. So maybe £1k-2k for a couple of days' work.

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