Kate Kirbyuncanny_kate@dice.camp
Nov 26, 2025, 3:36 PMHumanity really needed librarians to own Internet Search, not venture capitalists.
Replies
Milcom Miasmammiasma@mastodon.sdf.orgNov 26, 2025, 6:02 PMThat's the kind of statement that makes me stop and say to myself "That is so obviously true I can't imagine why we went a different way" and then I remember who we are and who we let drive society's attempts at progress right now.
Violet Maddervioletmadder@kolektiva.socialNov 26, 2025, 11:08 PMI mean, this applies to absolutely EVERYTHING.
"x should be run by [people whose entire education and career is focused on things directly related to x, with a passion for making it work as nicely and usefully as possible], not venture capitalists"
Sashinsashin@veganism.socialDec 1, 2025, 2:46 AM@violetmadder @mmiasma @uncanny_kate to put it more succinctly: "fuck venture capitalists"
- Violet Maddervioletmadder@kolektiva.socialDec 1, 2025, 2:58 AM
@sashin @mmiasma @uncanny_kate
Fuck capitalism, period.
Wendo, punkin spicy 🇺🇦wendinoakland@beige.partyNov 26, 2025, 6:04 PM@uncanny_kate You just summarized how “Enshittification” took over everything. @pluralistic !!!
wizzwizz4wizzwizz4@fosstodon.orgNov 26, 2025, 6:42 PM@uncanny_kate There's still time!
Sebastián Benítezsbenitezb@fosstodon.orgNov 26, 2025, 7:13 PM@uncanny_kate We need another network that is resistant to that kind of centralization of power
Nov 26, 2025, 9:28 PM@sbenitezb @uncanny_kate unfortunately it's not about technology but about societal resistance to accumulation of power.
Flaming CheetoPizzaDemon@mastodon.onlineNov 26, 2025, 7:22 PM@uncanny_kate They were in high demand in the late 90s /early 00s portal era. But then search got good with Alta Vista/eXcite/Google and beat categorization (Yahoo and those I've forgotten).
It's when the VCs had to be paid back in 8 years that enshitification ensued
Steve Fenton ➜stevefenton@mastodon.socialNov 26, 2025, 7:26 PM@uncanny_kate as a former DMOZ editor, this hit hard!
Avraclayote@peoplemaking.gamesNov 28, 2025, 6:24 AM@stevefenton If you'd like to get back in the DMOZ game, they're over here now: https://curlie.org
hi @Curlie
Nov 26, 2025, 7:41 PM@uncanny_kate yes 😭
keithzgkeithzg@fediverse.keithzg.caNov 26, 2025, 7:58 PM@uncanny_kate It would absolutely be a vast improvement in so many ways
But judging by the search functions of any library system I've ever used, is there uhhh perhaps a third option
Roborangewolf@mastodon.socialNov 26, 2025, 8:45 PM@uncanny_kate It’s not too late for this. The librarians will by definition outlast the vulture capitalists.
Irenes (many)ireneista@irenes.spaceNov 26, 2025, 8:57 PM@uncanny_kate yes. well, it's a grim point, but it's plausible that web search is obsolete now, which at least gives us a do-over with whatever comes next :(
Karel KošnarKarel_Kosnar@mastodonczech.czNov 26, 2025, 9:28 PM@uncanny_kate on other hand, if librarians develop the search engine, we ends with catalogue and never get fulltext.
Nov 30, 2025, 10:02 PM@Karel_Kosnar and who do you think gatekeeps the digital full text that would be needed to implement this? Because it certainly isn't librarians.
Nov 26, 2025, 9:44 PM@uncanny_kate I went to library school in Seattle in the 90s, we were just a little too far behind the search-tech curve, at the time (even though we were early to a lot of the other tech stuff like Z3950 stuff and interoperable metadata) and I think didn't quite understand how faster computers would make "keyword search ALL THE THINGS" the real first goal. And our decentralized nature is both our greatest strength and also a serious weakness.
Nov 26, 2025, 10:55 PMI just did a quick dive into Z3950 and SRU/SRW, do you know if this data
is exposed anywhere for a normie like me?
For example I frequently use my libararies portal to search for interlibrary
loan books, but it would be fun if I could search them directly.
CC: @uncanny_kate@dice.camp
edit: maybe:
https://www.loc.gov/standards/sru/resources/listOfServers.html#UnitedStates
https://www.loc.gov/standards/sru/resources/lcServers.html- Nov 26, 2025, 11:45 PM
@pkw @uncanny_kate Excellent question and I really don't know but I sort of don't think so? I feel like @platypus might know?
Ruth [☕️ 👩🏻💻📚✍🏻🧵🪡🍵]platypus@glammr.usNov 27, 2025, 1:34 AM@jessamyn @pkw @uncanny_kate Hallo!
So in terms of using Z39.50, I would say MarcEdit is a decent tool to get it set up on your computer and be able to search.
That list of servers you found is a start but you can also just search promising libraries and Z39.50. Some folks have it out there on a website, e.g. https://libraries.psu.edu/about/departments/libraries-strategic-technologies/university-libraries-z3950-server-description
Nov 26, 2025, 10:02 PM@uncanny_kate @researchfairy
Bizarrely, Page and Brin agreed in their 1998 paper on PageRank.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S016975529800110X?via%3Dihub
(Behind subscription payeall unfortunately.)
margotemaytch@mastodon.socialNov 26, 2025, 11:03 PM@uncanny_kate librarians are still fighting to keep venture capitalists out of libraries, at least! we’ll see how successful they end up being tho…
`Da Elfelfin@mstdn.socialNov 26, 2025, 11:14 PM@uncanny_kate Now that's a pretty damned good idea.
lp0 on fire :unverified:lp0_on_fire@social.linux.pizzaNov 26, 2025, 11:16 PM@uncanny_kate, hmm. Are you suggesting that there's a down-side to librarians owning venture capitalists?
The Witch of Crow Briarcrowbriarhexe@tech.lgbtNov 27, 2025, 12:09 AM@lp0_on_fire @uncanny_kate the uncompensated labor of having to empty their litter pans every two weeks?
yakkoj 🦊yakkoj@fosstodon.orgNov 26, 2025, 11:29 PM@uncanny_kate that needed to happen when altavista.digital .com was the "preferred" search engine (so... around 1995)
Nov 26, 2025, 11:51 PM@uncanny_kate Humanity really needed librarians, not venture capitalists, in general.
InfoSecSherpaInfoSecSherpa@infosec.exchangeNov 27, 2025, 12:02 AM@uncanny_kate PREACH!
🇺🇦 haxadecimal 🚫👑brouhaha@mastodon.socialNov 27, 2025, 12:53 AM@uncanny_kate
But then how would we be able to enshitify it?
Katie :oh_no_bubble:bugwhisperer@blahaj.zoneNov 27, 2025, 12:56 AM@uncanny_kate@dice.camp they still can! I'm putting together a team for "Operation Dewey" now.
- Avraclayote@peoplemaking.gamesNov 27, 2025, 1:12 AM
@uncanny_kate It happens there's something we can do about that! Everyone, pitch in and support @Curlie
Chaos Agent SpectreChaosSpectre@corteximplant.comNov 27, 2025, 1:22 AM@uncanny_kate i wonder if there is a search engine made by a librarian(s)? At this point, I'd rather find a ton of smaller engines that are focused on specific websites and data, than continue using one massive engine thats being pumped full of AI and ad pushing.
RantingCanuckRantingCanuck@mstdn.caNov 27, 2025, 2:14 AMAll technology that becomes necessary for participation in society should be publicly owned.
A private sector can be free to develop new technologies (both novel and incremental) but once the use of those technologies becomes a de facto necessity the ownership should transfer to a public entity.
Nov 27, 2025, 5:37 AM@uncanny_kate
> Humanity really needed librarians to own Internet Search, not venture capitalists.It is a most conservative statement on the subject I can imagine. Definitely NOT librarians( read: bureaucracy ) who can efficiently manage the access to knowlege. Monopoly is bad, free market is good. Including for Internet Search.
We do need librarians though ;P
Worikworik@mastodon.socialNov 27, 2025, 7:47 PM> Monopoly is bad, free market is good. I
Yea, nah!
The "free market" is bad so.ution for utilities (ask a ew Zealander")
Internet search, as we know it, powered by crawlers, is better if there is o ly one. Crawlers use up resources and the current explosion of crawlers (hovering up public data for LLMs) has been a bit of a catastrophe
An international effort to have one crawler indexing the Internet is a much better idea.
Rue MohrRueNahcMohr@infosec.exchangeNov 27, 2025, 7:24 AM@uncanny_kate we the people, are the libraries, maybe its a goal still in reach.
VulcanTouristVulcanTourist@autistics.lifeNov 27, 2025, 1:12 PMIt should be publicly owned infrastructure, like roads and the physical Internet. All three are very obviously part of The Commons, and yet only one of the three isn't in greedy private hands.
roodrood@aus.socialNov 27, 2025, 8:42 PM@uncanny_kate my local librarians are at war with technical reference books because of lack of popularity locally. Not sure they're the beacon of hope you're after ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
John Carlos Baezjohncarlosbaez@mathstodon.xyzNov 28, 2025, 9:05 AM@uncanny_kate - But:
Nov 28, 2025, 7:18 PM@uncanny_kate paging @jomc I believe this is very much your wheelhouse.
Daniel Lyonsdandylyons@iosdev.spaceNov 28, 2025, 8:33 PM@uncanny_kate then build it
- Avraclayote@peoplemaking.gamesDec 2, 2025, 2:49 AM
@dandylyons here u go, pal https://curlie.org
niveanivea@hessen.socialNov 29, 2025, 7:32 AM@uncanny_kate https://openwebcsearch.eu is laying the foundations, it seems
Nov 29, 2025, 8:23 AMIt's not too late!
Nov 30, 2025, 9:44 AM@uncanny_kate damn, we can be glad that venture capitalists didn't get their grubby little hands on *libraries* before librarians did o.O
[XYZ] wlowizard@xyzzy.linkNov 30, 2025, 3:21 PM@uncanny_kate humanity really needed not venture capitalists in general
SmutMagDotArtsmutmag@mstdn.socialDec 1, 2025, 2:41 AM@uncanny_kate Totally, agree!!! I honestly think that we should have to go to the library to access the internet. We need time limits and a line waiting to use it to keep our time on the internet productive and not turn into a horrifying addiction. We need research specialists nearby to help us navigate it.
benbunbenbun@norden.socialDec 1, 2025, 8:52 PM@uncanny_kate
You are completely correct. But what would it be called? I think shh.org is still free.
Niels Abildgaardnielsa@mas.toApr 11, 2026, 3:16 PM@uncanny_kate My brain read "libertarians" and got stuck for a full minute thinking "but they're the same thing" before I managed to read this right 😂
