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  • Jul 18, 2026, 2:11 PM

    I keep seeing the "cars replaced horses" thing related to "AI."

    People keep comparing "AI" to cars (positively) without thinking about the fact that cars were forced on people (GM bought up and destroyed tram lines, there were massive protests, etc), and are the primary driver of climate change that is currently on track to make complex human society impossible. Meanwhile, cities that weren't destroyed for cars, or that have reversed most of the damage, are some of the most desirable places to live.

    Maybe we could take the car analogy as a warning. Maybe it could be a reminder to think about how forcing technology on people against their will can reshape society in a profoundly negative way.

    The answer for cities has been to right-size transit. Eliminate cars wherever possible, maintain emergency vehicles and mobility aids, and find more efficient alternatives (bikes, trams, metros, and trains) where possible. I feel as though we can extrapolate from the metaphor.

    We do not have to repeat the mistake of reshaping society around a single, oversimplified, solution in order to benefit a tiny minority. Perhaps we can actually choose the right technologies based on use cases, rather than hype or dogma.

    Cars didn't replace horses. Cars replaced walkable cities, tram lines and mass transit, and children playing in the streets.

    "Cars replaced horses" to the benefit of a small group of elite men, at tremendous cost to literally everyone else. When people say, "AI is the new 'cars replacing horses'" they are saying something very specific about their privilege and intentions.

    Edit: I write AAA, but it should have been GM and related companies. Look up the "General Motors streetcar conspiracy." And yes, that means that "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" was actually based on real events that you didn't realize were real.

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Replies

  • Jul 18, 2026, 3:50 PM

    Some old white dude decided to jump all over yelling "Ackchyually, no one forced you to buy a car!!", and I'm just blocking. This shit is so easy to research. Like, yeah, people were forced to buy a car by minimum parking zoning that spread out cities, mass transit being (very intentionally) destroyed, and giant cars that murder people. There are actual laws that very intentionally made things worse, and then there's the intentionally created prisoner's dilemma of ever expanding car sizes.

    This shit is extremely easy to research. At this point I'm just assuming it's trolls or the type of people who would be like "but no one has *proved* smoking causes cancer" back in the 90's. Yeah, that was a thing, and they sounded *just fucking like these people today.*

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  • Jul 19, 2026, 9:50 AM

    Sealioning cultists are swarming like muggen and earn the same treatment.

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  • Jul 18, 2026, 2:34 PM

    @Hex and even with all that it needed a huge war to make it popular enough. And also replace bikes not just horses.

    I would like to add that the analogy works as bad when comparing it on a technical level. Given the task to transport something weighing 40-80kg for the most part. Therefore you move up to 2 tons, with high cost, that pollutes the whole environment. And then you arrive faster, well maybe, who knows there might be traffic, or maybe you just prompted the car wrong, wrong model? Idk

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  • Jul 19, 2026, 1:50 AM

    @Leendaal @Hex Well, and some of the drive to mechanisation was also crop failures and famines that decimated horse and other draft animal populations (which were in no small part caused by said wars, though some of the earlier instances predate WWI).

    Cars theoretically face a similar limitation, but it never quite seems to get bad enough to create lasting change everywhere... and even with EVs, that's still not really creating much change in terms of urban planning and public transit.

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  • OddOpinions5failedLyndonLaRouchite@mas.to
    Jul 18, 2026, 2:37 PM

    @Hex

    I'm sorry, this is just such total hippy bullshit

    no one force people to buy cars, just as no one forced people to buy color TVs or AC or washing machines

    as for the old tired myth that the car companies bought and destroyed the tramlines, iirc, the lines in Los Angeles were already failing when GM bought them

    and farmers gave up horses cause fuckng tractors are just so much fucking better , reality

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  • Jul 18, 2026, 5:05 PM

    @failedLyndonLaRouchite @Hex I’m going to guess those tramlines weren’t subsidised and probably weren’t allowed develop property?

    The thing about public transport is that most of the benefits are external to the system. The users don’t get most of them so you can’t charge an economic fare.

    And the external costs of cars are *huge* but never accounted for or charged.

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  • OddOpinions5failedLyndonLaRouchite@mas.to
    Jul 18, 2026, 5:50 PM

    @Colman @Hex

    that I guess is possible - it would be nice to have an expert weight in

    but those tramlines were very very popular in their day, then, like long distance passenger rail, vanished, so maybe it was a conspiracy and maybe not

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  • Jul 18, 2026, 3:55 PM

    @Hex There's a whole aspect of the "forced to buy cars" that is being left out of this discussion, and that is that the US government, in particular, CREATED the interstate highway system not to serve the people but as a national strategic asset after witnessing the German autobahn, and that auto manufacturing was always taken as a proxy for military strength because, again, German model, the ease of switching from cars to trucks and tanks is what a military needed back then.

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  • Jul 18, 2026, 3:56 PM

    @Hex So, there was a national scale, deliberate effort to increase roadways AND auto manufacturing, to the detriment of other forms of transit, particularly public transit, because they wanted us all to go out and buy cars to support the auto manufacturers who were part of this strategic asset system.

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  • Jul 18, 2026, 4:05 PM

    @Hex

    People really, really do not want to believe that the daily stuff in use is set by infrastructural decisions made over large scales by people with power. Sure, you as an individual can not buy a car, which will be a variably livable decision based on where you live, but a society where the infrastructure builders have decided on cars will have cars.

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  • Caro S.Heidentweet@todon.eu
    Jul 19, 2026, 10:12 AM

    @LieschenrelleuM
    Sure a vote ("put in power") could have some effect, but the idea of us putting people in power is a complete misreading of our Western democratic systems. It's a diversion of how power works here.

    When all your politicians are pro-cars because"it's the future! it's freedom!", or turn pro-cars after the elections (see Labour UK) or when your "choice" is limited to 2 parties (see USA), you're not going to think yourself out of this situation.

    @richpuchalsky @Hex

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  • Jul 18, 2026, 4:14 PM

    @Hex
    Someone who says 'nobody forced you to buy a car' very likely believes they got where they are through inherent merit & hard work.
    With a little work you could probably get that old dude to refine his position to "Nobody can be forced to do anything but die."

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  • Jul 19, 2026, 7:09 AM

    @FeralRobots @Hex haha! nothing but die? you underestimate them. Here in france, euthanasia law just passed and they're all like "well, nobody's actively forcing you to choose to die, so that's not a real problem" 🫠

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  • Jul 18, 2026, 4:26 PM

    @Hex but even if you weren't forced to buy a car you are forced to deal with the negative externalities like air pollution, noise pollution, and pedestrian fatalities. Let's not forget that cars brought us the delightful innovation of leaded gasoline, which then literally coated the planet in lead.

    I do think LLMs are bringing us the next form of leaded gasoline, everything is getting worse, and all information is getting warped. Misinformation was already getting bad before LLMs but it's accelerated that problem by an order of magnitude. It seems to exacerbate mental health problems in many people. I could go on.

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  • Jul 18, 2026, 9:53 PM

    @fancysandwiches @Hex total sidenote but I learned this week that single prop engine planes still run mostly on leaded fuel for some reason, and that’s why a lot of people around smaller airports have problems with raised lead levels, especially children (might be because they get closer monitoring or put more ground and fauna in their mouth when outside).

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  • Jul 19, 2026, 8:57 AM

    @fancysandwiches @Hex considering how many studies about AI-caused cognitive impairment (brain rot) are emerging (plus, damage to mental health), the lead analogy you pose is so appropriate.

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  • Jul 18, 2026, 5:15 PM

    @Hex Still reading, totally with you... "but", don't forget that not the whole planet works like the US. While what you said is true _specifically_ for the US, for europe it is actually not.

    You argument is still valid.

    I for myself tried to compare it with staying in the bronze age while the rest of the world embraces and develops iron and steel .... Which at least fitted the aspect of the enourmous resource cost .. but lacked the part where cars actually killed of thousands of jobs within a generation and made millions jobless because nobody needed horse farmsand so on anymore.

    But all of that does'nt really fit the actual problems we have _today_.

    I didn't (directly) use AI yet and i don't plan to change that .. but OTOH i'm a techie and deeply fascinated by all of it.

    IMHO, what we need is to understand that it is not "just" the technology but - as you said - it getting massively enforced upon users by literally _everyone_ of the top 1%.

    Getting cars in to the hands of the everyday average ppl had at least some positive aspect in the moment. How bad it became in the long run wasn't as clear.

    But today, we actually know what the plan behind it is. Centralisation of information and computing.... Actually killing off "home computing" for the profit of GAFAM and their owners.

    That's a real threat towards our freedoms.

    And IMHO, we get actually used by them because we (all) start(ed) another holy war about if AI is useful or not ...... completely ignoring the actors behind, helping them by ripping eachother apart over what to do or not..

    It's just sad. 🙁

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  • Jul 18, 2026, 5:21 PM

    @Hex You can basically keep going back in time and find these types in perpetuity.

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  • Jul 18, 2026, 6:42 PM

    @Hex I usually groan when people complain about individualism, but then people go on about some edge case and how everyone could do that if they wanted to.

    I've lived in the US without a car. It wasn't a decision, I wouldn't have survived without luck and a lot of sacrifices, and it sucks that I haven't been able to see my mother in over ten years because she lives fifty miles from any mass transit.

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  • Jul 18, 2026, 10:17 PM

    @Hex

    Yeah. Nobody is forcing you to buy a car. We are just going to build houses really far from jobs and grocery stores without offering any public transportation.

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  • Jul 19, 2026, 12:21 AM

    @Hex it’s very difficult to talk plain facts with someone who has been brainwashed. we are living in a system designed to extract quality of life from the masses and concentrate it at the top. People will go down with their ship, defending this system, the same system that they are oppressed by. It’s actually scary. 

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  • Jul 19, 2026, 8:31 AM

    @TransitBiker @Hex Did you watch the Not Just Bikes video about how American fire trucks are too big? The part where a fire crew is showing how bike lanes supposedly prevent them getting their truck along a street that IS LINED WITH PARKED CARS THAT ARE APPARENTLY INVISIBLE made me want to scream. People literally being obstructed on the way to save lives can't see what is actually obstructing them, because cars are apparently just natural features of the landscape.

    youtu.be/j2dHFC31VtQ?t=1217&is

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  • Jul 19, 2026, 8:46 PM

    @kkarhan @beecycling @TransitBiker @Hex

    UK has the exact same fire engines, just RHD (some even have Martinshorn on them), and I've not heard any Fire Brigade here complain about bike lanes, only badly parked cars.

    Not sure though if any UK appliances have pushed through parked cars, as here our insurers will still argue amongst each other and it risks firefighters being stalked and targeted (they already get attacked in some places if someone has deliberately set something alight and they don't want it put out, many have bodycams now)

    youtube.com/watch?v=qml251PZKFw

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  • Jul 19, 2026, 10:40 PM

    @vfrmedia @beecycling @TransitBiker @Hex seriously, wtf is wron in the #UK?

    Like #Arson is a damn #felony in every juristiction for good reason.

    - Just like impeding rescue work is in Germany, to the point that in some cities the Fire Brigade is called to order people to vacate an area, since Police can only jail people for 24 hours, and with Firefighters that escalates to up to € 15.000 fine and 6 months of jailtime…

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  • Jul 19, 2026, 10:46 PM

    @kkarhan @beecycling @TransitBiker @Hex

    its also a separate criminal offence in UK to attack any Emergency Services worker (Fire, Police or Ambulance) - max penalties are the same irrespective of service, but its still a problem here, during the race riots in Northern Ireland some folk were actively trying to stop the firefighters putting out the fires they had set to try and burn out minority communities

    Also some firefighters ended up fighting amongst themselves - only reason I can think for this happening (I have *never* heard of this before in 30+ years ) was that one of them actually wanted to see Belfast burn, can't imagine them arguing about how to run hoses

    Everyone who deals with public has bodycams now, even school crossing guards (lollipop persons)

    metro.co.uk/2026/06/11/firefig

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  • Jul 19, 2026, 11:07 PM

    @kkarhan @beecycling @TransitBiker @Hex

    I'm aware of the Fire Brigade having the usual problems with misogyny, racism and bullying that plague all uniformed services (and even the NHS), which is why I was put off considering working for them as a control room/ radio operator - but I've never until now heard of firefighters scuffling at an active fireground, and I've been reading reports on crimes and Emergency Services operations since I was a teenager..

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  • Jul 21, 2026, 12:09 PM

    @jabokoe @TransitBiker @kkarhan Lovely to watch. I've seen other similar ones where emergency vehicles use the cycle lane to bypass traffic that can't get out of the way. Bikes can get out of the way more easily if the traffic is stuck.

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  • Jul 21, 2026, 12:13 PM

    @jabokoe There's a whole genre of videos on YouTube of Americans reacting to this kind of footage from inside emergency vehicles in Europe and they're often surprised that European drivers at least try to get out of the way.
    @TransitBiker @kkarhan

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  • Jul 19, 2026, 8:42 PM

    @beecycling @Hex I have. One of the things that would make these huge things almost irrelevant is requiring sprinklers both in new builds & a grace period/tax credit to retrofit. Our building codes are designed to benefit the financiers of a project, not the end occupants & not the neighborhoods in which they are applied. Stuart Hicks has a video about the single stairway buildings. I mentioned the use of exterior egress stairs. If you look at the codes, they are too often bare minimum.

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  • Jul 19, 2026, 3:03 AM

    @Hex man, I wish I hadn't had my account suspended - that reply I made about the history of cars in the US was probably the closest thing I have to a viral post lol 😅

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  • Jul 19, 2026, 8:27 AM

    @Hex I'm convinced that cars gave us a brain worm that is very similar to its AI cousin. Once it has taken hold, refflecting about cars or AI becomes almost impossible.

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  • Jul 19, 2026, 11:44 AM

    @Hex I'll also say: there's also a shit ton of people who reject the idea that complex decision making systems like you describe exist or should exist. They literally don't see what you describe as "force".

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  • Jul 19, 2026, 12:08 PM

    @Hex lmao. spongebob pile meme for reasons why people are forced to buy cars

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  • Jul 20, 2026, 1:56 AM

    @rl_dane @Hex

    At least this one has some truth to it; as long as you're not stuck with anything DRM-locked to Windows, you really can nuke it at any time, however most people in North America *don't* have that level of choice for their transportation options; outside of the major cities it's either take the generally unreliable bus places, book a rideshare service, or drive.

    And that's if you're lucky to even have a bus system or rideshare services in your area; the truly rural areas are completely screwed.

    Going back to the tech analogy, phones are getting increasingly locked down to Google or Apple and nothing else, and for Macs, while you *can* install Asahi on them still, that's getting more difficult and may not last forever as an option, and it wouldn't surprise me if Macs got locked down to macOS only at some point in the future. PCs are the last bit of tech that are actually unlocked as far as the OS is concerned, and that's really sad.

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  • Jul 20, 2026, 2:55 AM

    @rl_dane @Hex

    And what's even sadder about PCs being the last bit of tech that's unlocked still, is ARM theoretically is more permissively-licensed than x86 is; anyone with money can buy an ARM license while x86 is pretty much locked to AMD and Intel, and yet consumer ARM devices are typically more locked down than PCs are, while ARM servers fall under the SystemReady spec.

    Given ARM is more permissively licensed than x86 is, that should've resulted in *more* freedom than PCs, not *less* freedom.

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  • Jul 18, 2026, 9:42 PM

    @niomi yeah... isn't a horse at least a largely self-driving vehicle? Safer than a car, too. Try to make a horse crash into a tree at 120km/h because you fell alseep on it!

    @Hex

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  • Jul 18, 2026, 4:25 PM

    @Hex see i would go the other way with it... like yes yes and if cars replaced horses... what is it that ai is replacing, mr smart guy?

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  • Jul 18, 2026, 5:03 PM

    @gbargoud @Hex this: horses were bad actually. The whole car thing got out of control in exactly the way LLMs are prophesied to: wasting huge amounts of resources to solve problems that was already have better, cheaper solutions to.

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  • Jul 18, 2026, 6:51 PM

    @Hex TBH I think this is just a really shallow metaphore for "newer is faster/has more power" that breaks apart if you take it too literally. It should be enough to disagree with the framing, but alas.

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  • AlonealastalovedalongtheAlonealastalovedalongthe@toot.cafe
    Jul 18, 2026, 7:04 PM

    @Hex Also while horses could not be reasonably, ethically nor hygenically scaled to industrialize with cities past a certain point (hence mass transit), it is easy to forget horses are superior to Teslas.

    1. Horses are so reliable when cared for and trained that trail riding tourism is a stable relatively-safe global industry. Trail rides are often over rugged, chaotic terrain too.

    2. If you drive a horse drunk, or fall asleep at the reigns a horse has a brain so you *probably won't die.

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  • Jul 18, 2026, 7:30 PM

    @Hex Asbestos Implemantion was equally highly recommended, untill ...
    human genius runs on originality, common stupidity however runs on repeat ...

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