Every time I try a new browser because the old browser was run by horrible people I find the new browser is also run by horrible people. I'm running out of browsers. I worry browser are big and complicated enough these days that they will always be run by horrible people. Feels like I need to find the browser run by the least horrible people.
Nov 3, 2026, 6:49 PM@grumpygamer In today's world vibe coding your own browser is the answer, I guess? 🥸
Nov 3, 2026, 6:49 PM@grumpygamer I can relate
@grumpygamer Lynx?
Nov 3, 2026, 6:51 PM@grumpygamer is Firefox also on the bad side? They currently run an ad that they are not AI-evil.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2AoYIKwJqM
@grumpygamer might I recommend Orion or Helium ?
@grumpygamer I use Vivaldi, I'm hoping they haven't shit the bed yet
Vivaldi seems OK, unless I missed something. They always hated cryptos and AI, for example. They are not open source, though.
Nov 3, 2026, 6:58 PM@grumpygamer Falkon if you're using GNU/Linux.
@grumpygamer Likewise.
*browser
*email
*OS
*office suite
*etc
@grumpygamer I’ve been living with Vivaldi for a while without complaint so far.
@grumpygamer Emacs has the web wowser, 'eww', if you want lynx with images and fonts, basically 🫣
@grumpygamer Vivaldi!
@grumpygamer Cross out "browser". Put in "anything". this is Capitalism.
@grumpygamer I’ve been to some talks with people from Vivaldi and they seem to be very into taking the internet back from evil megacorps. Based in Norway. They did some cool stunts a while back trying to get people off the meta:
https://www.kode24.no/artikkel/nasjonal-dugnad-for-a-hjelpe-nordmenn-vekk-fra-big-tech/262762
@grumpygamer if you don't mind that it doesn't work, #Ladybird browser from the #SerenityOS people might be a thing.
@grumpygamer ...is there something I don't know about Vivaldi?
Nov 3, 2026, 7:46 PM@grumpygamer I’ve gone back to Netscape Navigator.
@grumpygamer Lots of votes for Vivaldi here, but I can't be one of them. I use it as a secondary "trash" browser (for general surfing) alongside Librewolf, but with multiple installs on different platforms, it's always been buggy for me. Freeze-ups, random shutdowns, sluggishness, etc.
@grumpygamer Zen so far as the greatest track record I believe
@grumpygamer I've heard the Ladybird browser looks promising. However, it's not even in alpha yet.
@Ertain Only on Windows so far. It does look promising as long as they don't jump on the AI bandwagon.
@grumpygamer Ah, the more you know. 🌠
Yes, it is promising.
@grumpygamer @Ertain it is made by horrible, hateful people
@hardpenguin13 @Ertain Link to information? Or should we just trust you?
@grumpygamer @Ertain others left it in this very thread: https://nrw.social/@burningTyger/117554476103930899
Nov 3, 2026, 8:05 PM@grumpygamer i used Vivaldi but technical issue with my Apple devices prevented me to use them. I discovered Startpage thanks to them. So far so good and evil-free.
Tor?
Nov 3, 2026, 8:21 PM@grumpygamer #offpunk is a nice web browser maintained by #ploum who is on fedi and who is strongly anti-AI. https://ploum.net/2026-09-09-ai_policy.html
lynx and xlinks2 and others also rocks.
@grumpygamer Vivaldi. @Vivaldi
Nov 3, 2026, 8:51 PM@grumpygamer And here I am finding out that the people working on Mastodon are self-centered jerks... 😭
@grumpygamer omg it me
@grumpygamer
I use librewolf, based on Firefox, which so far hasn't disappointed. Made by people who don't even accept donations to avoid getting dependent on donors (looking at you Mozilla). As a serving browser I also have vivaldi, for the things that need a browser based on chromium like midi, for example
@grumpygamer I don't see @Waterfox mentioned yet — it's a no-nonsense Firefox fork. I prefer it over anything based on Google's heavy involvement with Chromium.
(Vivaldi couldn't stop the end of proper ad blocking with Manifest v3 for example, whereas Waterfox still runs the full uBlock Origin with all of its benefits.)
@grumpygamer the same with trying to find a save place for my data in any cloud....
@grumpygamer what about simpler protocol like gemini?
@grumpygamer welcome to the human condition of unsatisfactoriness
Nov 3, 2026, 9:24 PM@grumpygamer Falkon by the folks at KDE?
@grumpygamer Just throwing in Pale Moon. It's based off of an old Firefox engine that they've updated and reworked. Check out their website for more info: https://www.palemoon.org/
They have some extensions, but I don't believe Firefox ones are compatible. Cool concept but tbh I haven't really been using it much.
@grumpygamer easy: curl. @bagder
Nov 3, 2026, 9:56 PM@grumpygamer I'm fairly happy with Zen - I moved away from Vivaldi when ublock stopped working
@grumpygamer Another vote for Vivaldi on desktop. The translate features are excellent. I use Quiche on iOS which I love @quicheindustries. Crikey I hope there is no reason not too.. 🤞🏼Happy with Startpage as well for search..
Ron, I make Quiche Browser on iOS, a silly-named but quite nice browser.
Also, I played Monkey Island on a VGA screen as a teen, and bought Thimbleweed Park multiple times on different platforms, which also makes me silly but nice.
@grumpygamer Been using Brave... built in ad and tracker blocker... even on Youtube.
@grumpygamer If you've ever had to compile a browser you start to see that they've reached a point now that they're practically an OS in themselves. It takes my desktop computer around100x longer to compile browser adjacent things. (Both QT and GTK have something that is basically a slimmed down Chromium which, unfortunately, seems to get updated fairly often and somehow always needs to compile instead of using binaries for me — I should really look into where that use flag is coming from...)
I think LibreWolf, WaterFox, and IronFox are all pretty good, but they don't make the browsers, they just patch at the hot mess that Mozilla releases to try to clean it up after the fact.
I think Servo is our best hope. If they betray us I will put a curse on their families' families.
@grumpygamer Firefox is the only logical choice. Would you like to hear the reasoning step by step or should I refrain from that?
@grumpygamer I currently stay with Firefox, but definitely have interest in trying out one of the forks and high hopes for @servo
@grumpygamer you can also go read it listen to Dr. Devon Price's Unlearning Shame. It isn't on you too fix Browsers. Use whatever browser you want to topple capitalism, organize a community, consume or release real, original art. It's okay if you can't use the perfect browser of it doesn't exist
How about Ecosia🇩🇪?
....Or Mozilla🇺🇸/ Opera GX 🇨🇳/🇳🇴/🇵🇱 if You don't mind AI and US/PRC but I guess You do.
@grumpygamer I feel this. Big time.
I’m loving Lynx in my terminal. I customized its appearance to my liking.
For graphical browsers, I can’t be certain there are no dark secrets. But I think the following are in good shape with their leadership:
Vivaldi
Waterfox
Zen (but I really don’t like its UX/UI)
Vivaldi is my first choice. But they have some privacy gaps I’d love to see fixed. Specifically a lack of fingerprinting defense and Chromium patch lag.
Some folks talk about Ladybird. Please avoid it like the plague. Lots of folks aren’t aware of how bad their leadership is.
@grumpygamer and work for the company that is least horrible, get various services from the company that is least horrible, vote for the least horrible 😂
@grumpygamer Vivaldi or Firefox seem least-ish at the moment - monitor for changes
@decapitae I hear nothing but bad things about Firefox and the leadership.
@grumpygamer I'm sorry, I hadn't listened that close since they made me unhappy last time, and I eventually found vivaldi browser - but I hop around and end up using the least enraging one depending on the context these days
@decapitae No matter what we choose, we're doomed.
@grumpygamer Unless that choice is to abandon the capitalistic commercialism of the internet 🤔🤷 Meshtastic may have utility there - the peoples network
@grumpygamer another vote for @zenbrowser
@grumpygamer Just by turning on your Amiga computer, the problem should be solved in no time.
@grumpygamer Honestly, I've simply resigned to avoiding the browsers run by the most horrible people.
Brave is the chart-topper of browsers run by horrible people because of Brendan Eich. But they also court AI and cryptocurrency people.
I'm *still* a Firefox loyalist, but when I *have* to use a Chrome-based browser, Vivaldi is my current weapon of choice. The others either lean too openly into AI (Opera) or are maintained by untrustworthy megacorps (Edge, Chrome).
@grumpygamer This is why I sincerely believe the US National Institute of Standards and Technology, and its equivalent agencies in the European Union, Japan, India, and other nations should make their own web browsers. Also phone and computer OSes.