Oct 21, 2026, 9:03 AMDesign of the OUIGO TGV-M revealed: they’ve done away with the passengers altogether! 🎉
- Oct 21, 2026, 9:03 AM
Replies
- Oct 21, 2026, 9:52 AM
Get on the TER Mulhouse - Basel
Someone sits down close to me and starts playing a video at full blast *in English*
So he was very swiftly told to use headphones in English 😅
- Oct 21, 2026, 10:04 AM
Today I’m even more annoyed with railways than normal. Stupid rules (TER Grand Est), stupid manufacturers (Alstom - re. Padborg), stupid procurement (NRW Hitachi Caravaggio), stupid media (ORF), stupid passengers (on this TER).
- Oct 21, 2026, 2:08 PM
So @partim what do you want to know? 🤔
- Oct 21, 2026, 3:49 PM
News was released today about who will operate a slew of regional train lines in Nordrhein Westfalen - VRR here: https://www.vrr.de/aktuelles/newsroom/db-regio-und-westfalenbahn-sollen-den-zuschlag-fuer-ausgeschriebene-nahverkehrsleistungen-erhalten/
The important news: for the first time Hitachi Caravaggio EMUs have been ordered for Germany
Trenitalia calls their trains of this series “Rock” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caravaggio_(train) from rock music, but I tend to think it describes the ride and the seats - rock hard
These are not nice trains. Cramped, stupid doors, weird end carriages. Not a nice choice.
SeiðrIlluminatus@mstdn.socialOct 21, 2026, 9:06 AM@jon Top efficiency, you can't deny.
MJ Raymjr@masto.bikeOct 21, 2026, 9:09 AM@jon well, that's one way of overcoming the loooong dwell times caused by carriages with one single-leaf door per two floors!
Oct 21, 2026, 9:11 AM@jon 😅😅😇
Oct 21, 2026, 9:14 AM@jon imagine the acceleration on this thing
Stefan Lindbohmstefanlindbohm@mastodon.socialOct 21, 2026, 9:20 AM@jon So much simpler!
Oct 21, 2026, 9:46 AM@jon TGV M ❌
TGV XS ✅
Oct 21, 2026, 10:08 AM@jon 🥺
Maartjemaartje@blahaj.socialOct 21, 2026, 10:25 AM@jon i am joining that club today…
dasgrueneblattdasgrueneblatt@wien.rocksOct 21, 2026, 10:33 AM@jon what did ORF do this time?
webhatwebhat@infosec.exchangeOct 21, 2026, 10:53 AM
Oct 21, 2026, 2:25 PM@jon Floor heights between driven and non-driven bogies: Is there a difference between the two ends of carriage 3/23 or 9/29?
- Oct 21, 2026, 2:39 PM
@partim OK, will check after it stops at… errr… Europapark, shortly! 😄 (sending greetings to @K1ngdaKa88 meanwhile)
Lukas 🎢 🇨🇭K1ngdaKa88@zug.networkOct 21, 2026, 3:24 PM- Oct 21, 2026, 2:53 PM
@partim As far as I can tell both ends of carriage 3 are the same height, I estimate something like 15cm higher than the door (that I think is 760mm), so 910mm above rail or so, maybe as much as 940mm. There are so many odd bits of ramps it is hard to say for certain, but both ends of the carriage have the same series of ramps.
Wrzlbrnftwrzlbrnft@troet.cafeOct 21, 2026, 2:57 PM@jon @partim Hilft euch evt. diese Tabelle weiter?
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_RABe_501#Wagenreihung- Oct 21, 2026, 3:15 PM
@wrzlbrnft @jon Nicht wirklich. Die Frage war, ob die Durchgänge über den angetriebenen Drehgestellen höher sind, weil das ganze Antriebsgeraffel ja irgendwo hin muss.
- Oct 21, 2026, 3:16 PM
@partim @wrzlbrnft Und das Antwort ist: nein, oder besser gesagt: wenn ja, dann nur *sehr* minimal.
Nils Jansenpublixpace@nrw.socialOct 21, 2026, 3:56 PM- Oct 21, 2026, 3:58 PM
@publixpace Sure, I have taken those trains loads of times. I am not a fan!
- Nils Jansenpublixpace@nrw.socialOct 21, 2026, 4:00 PM
Dead-end upper-decks are generally horrible.
The channel host was not convinced either, with its design and comfort.
- Oct 21, 2026, 4:01 PM
@publixpace Bear in mind the Italian ones are built for their more restrictive loading gauge (4.3m height), while theoretically the German ones could be 30cm higher. Maybe this means they can eliminate some of the cramped areas? We can hope!
- Nils Jansenpublixpace@nrw.socialOct 21, 2026, 4:04 PM
Or maybe that train just was the cheapest because nobody else wants it and they had to sell it off at a discount😉.
- Oct 21, 2026, 4:16 PM
@publixpace @jon They definitely want a foot into the German market.
Question is: Will this be yet another Ansaldo-Breda train that performs okay on Italian railways but is an utter disaster abroad? I know what I am betting on.
- Oct 21, 2026, 4:19 PM
@partim @publixpace I am betting on it being horrid but reliable enough. Like the Hitachi products in the UK.
- Oct 21, 2026, 4:21 PM
@jon @publixpace Those aren’t Ansaldo-Breda, though. I’m not convinced Hitachi had that much positive influence on them.
- Oct 21, 2026, 4:27 PM
@partim @publixpace Is there anything of an AnsaldoBreda lineage running anywhere else in Europe? (Greece doesn’t count)
Jonas BoströmJonas_Bostrom@mastodonsweden.seOct 21, 2026, 4:33 PM@jon If you count trams there are AnsaldoBreda trams in Gothenburg. @partim @publixpace
onterofonterof@sueden.socialOct 21, 2026, 6:23 PM@Jonas_Bostrom @jon @partim @publixpace Metro Madrid and Metro Copenhagen (I think?) have rolling stock from AnsaldoBreda. But those are not really comparable to regular trains.
- Oct 21, 2026, 6:27 PM
@onterof @Jonas_Bostrom @partim @publixpace The Kbh ones have lousy build quality. The Madrid ones no idea.
- Oct 21, 2026, 4:36 PM
@jon @publixpace Things I can think of: the Danish IC4, the Norwegian type 72, Oslo’s SL 95 (which they finally got rid of). And of course the Fyra was supposed to.
- Oct 21, 2026, 4:39 PM
@partim @publixpace Those Norwegian 72 EMUs are not too bad actually, and are getting a mid-life refurbishment. So maybe it is not *always* a disaster? Maybe…?
- Oct 21, 2026, 4:46 PM
@jon @publixpace I seem to remember that the introduction wasn’t exactly smooth. But admittedly, that happens to more … reputable suppliers as well.
- Oct 21, 2026, 4:57 PM
@partim @publixpace right. But there was the idea they’d be scrapped but the series got a reprieve. Possibly because all Alstom orders are late.
Oct 21, 2026, 5:09 PM- Oct 21, 2026, 5:13 PM
- Oct 21, 2026, 5:22 PM
Lukasspaetzlesmasher@sueden.socialOct 21, 2026, 4:17 PM@publixpace @jon or Hitachi has some production capacity left while Alstom, Stadler and Siemens are quite busy atm, with the first two being unable to deliver on time aswell
- Oct 21, 2026, 4:18 PM
@spaetzlesmasher @publixpace I reckon Siemens or Stadler could do it. Alstom at the moment you totally cannot count on. But the question is how custom this Eurocaravaggio is going to be (compared to the regular Rock).
Cycling on Railscycling_on_rails@mastodon.socialOct 21, 2026, 5:36 PM@jon I guess I'm biased as I haven't actually ridden the Rock train, just looked at it. The entrance area and bicycle spaces looked much more sensible than any Regiolis or Regio 2N I can think of (and other options in Italy) in terms of space (I know that's not a high bar to clear). https://mastodon.social/@cycling_on_rails/117474779063845041
Oliver Blanthornbovine3dom@masto.aiOct 21, 2026, 5:42 PM@cycling_on_rails the dead end upstairs bits are really unsafe. the kind of thing any woman would have stopped if they had seen it
and all of the upstairs is unsafe for me personally because i always whack my head
- Cycling on Railscycling_on_rails@mastodon.socialOct 21, 2026, 5:47 PM
@bovine3dom @jon That makes sense. I guess I didn't venture upstairs as I didn't expect to find anything cycling-relevant there.
- Oct 21, 2026, 6:04 PM
@cycling_on_rails but the space foreseen for bikes is rather narrow. But yes, bike transport is ok.
- Cycling on Railscycling_on_rails@mastodon.socialOct 21, 2026, 6:18 PM
@jon Looks like the Innotrans demo had schematics showing how to alternate the bicycle directions so the handlebars don't block each other. Then their demo e-bike was put in the wrong direction. 🤭 https://www.vagonweb.cz/fotogalerie/foto/201803/M1081400-kopie.jpg
samuele963samuele963@tech.lgbtOct 22, 2026, 10:49 AM@jon afaik this will be the first time the Caravaggio family will be used abroad (excl. the current IC Blues tests in Greece), and the first time they'll be specced for AC. For Germany I'm mainly worried about the horribly slow door opening times... but I hope the rest of the issues will be solved in the adaptation
- Oct 22, 2026, 10:54 AM
@samuele963 Right. Can they get rid of the terrible sliding doors altogether? I hope they get rid of the dead end upstairs sections too.
- samuele963samuele963@tech.lgbtOct 22, 2026, 11:01 AM
@jon I'm not sure - I suppose they could try at least having two smaller doors like normal rather than one big one. I imagine Hitachi could adapt them a little if requested (they'll already need to adapt them for 760mm platforms and 15kV) but someone needs to actually request these changes
- Oct 22, 2026, 11:19 AM
@samuele963 or Hitachi needs to realise these trains won’t get more orders in Germany without some changes!
Oct 21, 2026, 10:07 AM@jon Did he actually do anything? I put a lot of blame for people playing sound in public on the phone manufacturers, who suddenly stopped putting (crappy) headphones in the box for free, and decided that headphones are now the premium option
- Oct 21, 2026, 1:46 PM
@trantion he did. He stopped.
- Oct 21, 2026, 9:56 AM
@jon Nono, the car transporters are part of this. Optimised for beetroot stations.
Dr. SobekSobex@sciences.reOct 21, 2026, 10:26 AM@jon Uh-Uh 😆
More seriously, how many TGV M are slated to be OuiGo sets ?
- Dr. SobekSobex@sciences.reOct 21, 2026, 10:31 AM
@jon https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_TGV#Rames_1000 isn't very helpful, aside from the fact that some of the Italy capable ones also get OuiGo treatments. (Interestingly a consist of 2 OuiGo TGV M would not be permissible in the base tunnel according the current draft regulation, that's going to be a fun one).
OuiGo TGV M is iirc 744 pax per unit, 2 OuiGO is thus 1488 which is above the 1200 souls on bord limit of TELT, according the draft reference document on their website.
(I can track down the link if you want, French is the authoritative version btw).
This could also be an amusing cross border rail issue, for non OuiGo services too.
- Oct 21, 2026, 1:47 PM
@Sobex ha. Another TGV-M shortcoming. Amazing 😆
- Dr. SobekSobex@sciences.reOct 21, 2026, 1:52 PM
@jon Well, the TGV Dasye Ouigo already went over that 1200 limit in UM2, and the limitation was announced after the TGV M were ordered and specified.
Though wiki suggests the lowest seating config is 600. So perhaps the normal sets intended for Italy will be exactly at the 1200 souls limit.Or perhaps SNCF is already lobbying TELT about this to get the tunnel limit to increase.
- Dr. SobekSobex@sciences.reOct 21, 2026, 1:54 PM
@jon So I'd blame TELT on that one rather than Alstom and SNCF.
Also, I don't know what's the rule in the Gothard base tunnel, for instance, and perhaps this limit is no problem in the short term because nobody intends to run UM2 through the Lyon-Turin base tunnel any soon ?
- Dr. SobekSobex@sciences.reOct 21, 2026, 2:20 PM
@jon Well, I've started here and perhaps I'll get to the Gotthard base tunnel rules https://vorgaben.sbb.ch/en/content/61540?
