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  • Ramses Revengeday :revengeday:revengeday@corteximplant.com
    Jul 2, 2026, 4:46 PM
    1. The technical nightmare (or: Why "Just use Faircamp" isn't an argument)Yes, there are great alternatives. Faircamp is awesome, open source, decentralized – all great. But you know what? Faircamp isn't a "copy & paste" thing. It's not a dashboard where you quickly upload a cover and some MP3s and you're done. It's static site generation via the command line. It's YAML, config files, deployment via SSH or FTP. Go ahead and put yourself in the shoes of an artist who spends all day being creative, mixing, songwriting, painting – and who has never seen a single line of code in their life. That person opens the Faircamp documentation, sees nothing but cryptic commands, and closes the tab after five minutes – not out of laziness, but out of pure overwhelm.For many, this is a huge, insurmountable obstacle, and it has nothing to do with stupidity or ignorance. It has everything to do with the fact that we're not all in the same bubble. Just because it's easy for a few tech nerds in the Fediverse doesn't mean it's doable for the rest of the world. And no, we don't all have an "IT support friend" who can just set this up for us. Some of us don't even have the time because we're working 40-hour weeks on top of our art just to make ends meet.
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Replies

  • Ramses Revengeday :revengeday:revengeday@corteximplant.com
    Jul 2, 2026, 4:46 PM
    1. The psychological grind (or: What it feels like to be publicly shamed)Do you have any idea what it does to you when you read on your own timeline that you're a traitor just because you're still on Bandcamp? When you have to justify a platform choice you made years ago when there was no alternative?Making art is hard enough as it is. We stand in front of a blank page every day, doubting ourselves, battling imposter syndrome, fighting creative blocks. And then we open the Fediverse to get a little bit of community air – and we're immediately confronted with the fact that we're apparently part of the problem.That eats at you. It pulls the rug out from under you. It stops being fun to share your music when you feel like every link you post gets an immediate response: "Still on Bandcamp? Shame on you!"We simply don't have the mental capacity to deal with this tech-political shitshow on top of the creative process! My creative energy is finite. If I waste it defending myself against my own community, it's missing for new songs, new lyrics, new art. And in the end, we all suffer – especially you, who complain about a lack of output. Instead of building us up, you're tearing us down – and this from people who call themselves a "supportive community." The irony is almost too much to put into words.
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  • Ramses Revengeday :revengeday:revengeday@corteximplant.com
    Jul 2, 2026, 4:46 PM
    1. The false solidarity (or: When allies suddenly become judges)I always thought the Fediverse was supposed to be a place of tolerance, mutual aid, and slow, thoughtful togetherness. But what I'm experiencing right now is nothing but a loud wave of outrage against a platform where artists are the ones bearing the consequences. It's no longer about solutions – it's just about instant complaining and moral superiority.This "us vs. them" mentality is so incredibly counterproductive. Instead of coming together and asking: "Hey artist, what do you need? How can we help you make the switch?" – it's just complaining, boycotting, and finger-pointing. That's not activism, that's just comfortable outrage from people who carry zero risk themselves. How many of you have actually released an album? How many of you know the pressure of having your rent depend on it? How many of you lie awake at night wondering if your next release will even interest anyone? If you don't know that – then please, just keep your mouths shut for a second.
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  • Ramses Revengeday :revengeday:revengeday@corteximplant.com
    Jul 2, 2026, 4:46 PM
    1. The economic reality (or: Bandcamp isn't just hosting, it's visibility)And then there's the point that almost no one understands: Bandcamp isn't just a server where my MP3s sit. Bandcamp is a marketplace. There's visibility there, recommendation algorithms (as much as we hate them), buyers who stumble across me by chance. If I delete everything overnight and run off to my own Faircamp instance, I disappear into the void. No one finds me anymore.I've spent years building a small fanbase there. And now I'm supposed to throw all of that away because hating on Bandcamp is the current Fediverse trend? That's not just unrealistic – that's economic suicide for many of us. And let's be real: How many of you actually click on random personal Faircamp pages scattered across the internet? Exactly. No one. You use convenient platforms yourselves but expect us to do all the digital heavy lifting.
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  • Ramses Revengeday :revengeday:revengeday@corteximplant.com
    Jul 2, 2026, 4:46 PM
    1. The emotional blackmail (or: Why we don't want to choose between bread and morals)What fucks me off the most is this underlying emotional blackmail: "If you really care about independent art, you'll leave Bandcamp immediately." As if we have to choose between survival and morals. That's not a choice! We want both – we want to be independent, but we also want to be able to eat. And above all, we don't want to be torn down by the very people who claim to be on our side.You have no idea how many tears, how much blood and sweat are in those simple Bandcamp links. For me, it's not just a shop – it's my life's work, built piece by piece. And then someone comes along and says: "Delete all of that, or you're no longer relevant." That's not just ignorant – it's heartless.
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  • Ramses Revengeday :revengeday:revengeday@corteximplant.com
    Jul 2, 2026, 4:46 PM
    1. And as if all that wasn't already shitty enough – here comes the cherry on top of this steaming pile: Artificial IntelligenceOh, and while we're busy fighting each other over Bandcamp and tearing each other apart, the next frontal attack is already coming from the other side. AI. Everywhere. Every day a new tool that supposedly "makes art." Text-to-image, text-to-music, voice cloning, song generators – all with one click. "Just generate yourself a song without having to play anything." "Generate your album cover, who needs an illustrator anymore?" "Clone that dead singer's voice, it's so cool!"And you know what the best part is? While we're busy accusing each other of being on the wrong platform, the tech industry is busy shitting all over our entire existence. But hey, as long as that one artist who's still on Bandcamp gets publicly cancelled while some AI corporation quietly plays with our livelihoods – all good, right?We're getting fucked from all sides right now: by the platforms that sell us out, by the AI that wants to replace us, and by our own community that gives us the rest instead of support. That's insane. We're not the enemies! We're the ones who are in this shit up to our necks! And instead of coming together, we're tearing each other apart while the AI wells are poisoning our water outside. That's not just frustrating – it's deeply sad.
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  • Ramses Revengeday :revengeday:revengeday@corteximplant.com
    Jul 2, 2026, 4:46 PM

    So, for absolute clarity:

    Yes, switching to decentralized, independent alternatives is important. Long-term. I'm not against it.

    No, I'm not stupid, ignorant, or a sellout just because I haven't left yet. I simply have other priorities and real hurdles, for fuck's sake.

    No, I won't let people who have never been in my situation tell me how to distribute my art.

    And yes, I'm afraid of AI. But I'm even more afraid of a community that leaves me hanging while I'm fighting against the wall.

    If you want to boycott Bandcamp – go ahead. That's your right. But please, please stop punishing us artists for still being there. Why not just ask us what we need? Offer help instead of accusations. Support us in other ways (buy directly from us, share our links, send us Faircamp tutorials, offer to help us with deployment). That would be real activism. Not this mindless shouting.

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  • Ramses Revengeday :revengeday:revengeday@corteximplant.com
    Jul 2, 2026, 4:46 PM

    And with all the justified Bandcamp criticism: Maybe also direct some of your focus to the fucking AI that's currently trying to devalue our entire art. That's the real end boss, not us.

    But this constant "Fuck Bandcamp" shouting while you're simultaneously listening to our music and complaining that we haven't moved yet – that's just hypocritical bullshit. Think one step further before you post your next rant. We're on the same side, but right now you're shooting straight through your own wall.

    Thanks to everyone who gets it. And to the rest: Please just shut the fuck up and listen instead of complaining. Or even better: Help actively instead of just commenting. We're fighting enough – against platforms, against algorithms, against rent, and now also against AI. We don't need your shit on top of all that.

    Peace, but also a little bit of war. ✌️🔥

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  • Ramses Revengeday :revengeday:revengeday@corteximplant.com
    Jul 3, 2026, 5:05 PM

    I've received so many comments, messages, and thoughts on my post over the last few hours – I really didn't expect this. Huge thanks to everyone who took the time to share their perspective, agree with me, correct me, share their own experiences, or just say "thank you" :teto_joy:

    I have to be honest: I'm completely overwhelmed by the amount right now. I can't reply to everyone individually, even though I'd love to. But I promise you: I will read every single comment. Every one. Really.

    It's just a lot right now, and I need some time to process it all. But it feels so good to see that this discussion has been kicked off and that so many of you are thinking along, empathizing, and helping.

    Thank you for not just complaining, but for actually wanting to make a difference. Thank you for listening to me and other artists. This honestly gives me hope that we're still on the right track here in the Fediverse :cyberheart_green:

    I'll get back once I've made it through everything. Until then – you're awesome.

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  • nocci [still cyberpunk'd]nocci@ism.yt
    Jul 2, 2026, 4:53 PM
    @revengeday

    This! Absolutely.

    Cannot understand how people resolve their cognitive dissonance when they hate BC but still use services that allow and monetize AI "music".
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  • stefan (stefbun)stefan@akko.lightnovel-dungeon.de
    Jul 2, 2026, 4:55 PM
    @revengeday what did I miss with bandcamp? I know they were like bought by big music some years ago but stuff like bandcamp friday still be going on. Did they make it worse somehow or is this community drama?

    (I would love to give a more in-depth answer but I am kinda out of the loop on the meta-stuff)
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  • rickrick@a.n0id.space
    Jul 2, 2026, 5:41 PM
    @revengeday urgh.. ppl like that sucks.. we should work together not against us..

    take as much hugs and love as you like :blobcatheart:
    and thanks for making this awesome art <3
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  • Hanneshannsr@metalhead.club
    Jul 2, 2026, 5:46 PM

    @revengeday full ack. I hate what's happening to Bandcamp, but as long as there is no real alternative and artists are getting paid like they are now, I'll continue using it.

    I'm also looking into @mirlo but the absolute majority of artists are still on Bandcamp.

    I'd hate for everything to fall apart and there to be no more platform to just buy digital drm free music and then some just for some blind activism.

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  • Ramses Revengeday :revengeday:revengeday@corteximplant.com
    Jul 2, 2026, 5:52 PM

    @hannsr On @mirlo, I created an account earlier; I just need to maintain it there, which brings us back to the topic of time. But so far, I find @mirlo really cool, the share is absolutely fair, I would even give more as I am aware that hosting can become really expensive.

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  • Hanneshannsr@metalhead.club
    Jul 2, 2026, 5:55 PM

    @revengeday @mirlo yeah afaik the people behind mirlo are former Bandcamp engineers?
    So that explains why it looks and feels so good. Also instantly found an interesting new artist so it was worth it.

    We'll see how it goes. Can't hurt to have a second platform - well except for time to maintain for the artists of course - to keep an eye on.

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  • mirlo.spacemirlo@musician.social
    Jul 2, 2026, 8:19 PM

    @hannsr @revengeday Thank you and we appreciate the kind words! Just wanted to mention though, none of us are ex-Bandcamp engineers, although there are a couple of folks on our Discord from Bandcamp. 🐦‍⬛

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  • Talya (she/her) 🏳️‍⚧️✡️Yuvalne@433.world
    Jul 2, 2026, 6:53 PM

    @revengeday there's many ways to react that aren't punishing artists.
    - purchasing music exclusively on Bandcamp Fridays (which is what i mostly do)
    - trying to find your favourite artists on other platform and purchase their music there
    - giving your favourite artists money directly rather than through a purchasing platform
    etc.

    shaming artists isn't one of them.

    heck, i'm still trying to get some artists to not be exclusively available via streaming. give people using Bandcamp some slack.

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  • Nealaethernaut@mastodon.art
    Jul 2, 2026, 8:41 PM

    @revengeday there is a type of person who believes in good principles, but thinks it’s a flex to apply them at the most extreme level against people who are actually allies. It’s not a flex. It’s deeply short sighted and destructive.

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  • fluffy 💜fluffy@plush.city
    Jul 2, 2026, 10:50 PM

    @revengeday I agree with all of this. I mean I've been very critical of Bandcamp as a company and am always exploring alternatives, but I'm also so very sick of the treadmill of finding new places to put stuff, and how every single one is locked in and trying to be The One Right Way to do it all, and it's so tiring.

    IMO artists should have their own website at least as a place to link to where their music is available, but that website can just be a Linktree or Carrd or whatever.

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  • fluffy 💜fluffy@plush.city
    Jul 2, 2026, 10:51 PM

    @revengeday and it got really frustrating how when the first surge of anti-Bandcamp sentiment came about, people were all like "boycott Bandcamp! don't buy ANYTHING there, at all!" but then not raising any alternatives, and as much as I like Faircamp as a thing that exists, I also do not like a lot of aspects of its design, or how much of an admin tax goes into running it, or especially how it's now turning into its own monoculture on the Fediverse.

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  • fluffy 💜fluffy@plush.city
    Jul 2, 2026, 10:53 PM

    @revengeday like the whole point to my Canimus project is to decouple where music is hosted from how music is discovered and played, and even then I get pushback from people who think I'm not going far enough and how it should all be JSON-LD schemata all the way down, or how I "should" be focusing on ActivityPub or whatever, even though ActivityPub doesn't actually solve the problems, but it sure as heck makes a bunch of new ones.

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  • fluffy 💜fluffy@plush.city
    Jul 2, 2026, 11:27 PM

    @revengeday but also yeah "not supporting Bandcamp" has turned into "not supporting artists that are on Banddcamp" and that's just messy and misses the entire point.

    I'm still on Bandcamp and still putting all my new releases there, because realistically, it's the only place people are actually buying my music. I want that to change, but I can't will it into being.

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  • SynAck, Wizard of Pimpnog :facepalm:SynAck@corteximplant.com
    Jul 2, 2026, 11:06 PM

    @revengeday This is how classic enshittification works and it will always be the end result of capitalism. In the end, it's the people who actually do the work that end up getting screwed, squeezed, and abused. It's absolutely awful, and it happens everywhere.

    Too many self-centered consumers forget about the people that are caught in the middle, even when it's happening to them in another area of life (most likely their own jobs). They seem to be unable to understand (for some unknown reason) that so many things are not black and white and that people can - and sometimes must - exist between a rock and a hard place.

    As someone told me while I was unemployed: "Principles are great and all, but they don't pay the bills and put food on your table." And just like all the things you mentioned, as the person that needs a roof over one's head or food to put in their mouths, if you've never personally been there, then here's a nice, hot, steaming cup of shut the fuck up to go with your cheese and whine.

    Talk about shooting the damn messenger.... sheesh! :gnah:

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  • LenHyperlynx@aus.social
    Jul 3, 2026, 1:59 AM

    @revengeday I'm sorry. It's a bullshit, awful situation.

    Is subvert.fm/ any good? It's a Bandcamp-alternative that's also a co-op.

    Although, the fact that I had to search my own toots to find it again probably tells me the answer.

    I can especially sympathise with not wanting to wrestle with a damn command-line interface. *I'm a software engineer* and I still don't have the energy for that nonsense in my off-time, I've spent it all at work!

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  • Plasmawizplasmawiz@corteximplant.com
    Jul 3, 2026, 4:00 AM

    @revengeday While I have been very quiet about this over the last decade (people can be quite rabid when someone counters this attitude), this is one of those things that I have been very critical of in private. Faux "with us or against us" activism does nothing but harm everyone's prospects in these things. It is very tempting to draw huge lines in the sand lest you be "corrupted" but honestly that is not how real life works. Real life works through deliberate, slow choices and nuanced preferences. Ultimately it is a negotiation between ones philosophical principles and the environment we exist in.

    Boycotts only work when done en-masse, otherwise it is actually helping these people because you are willingly removing yourself from the equation.

    Sure, a BandCamp or a Steam is still gonna be corpo aligned, but you are better off signalling that you prefer a more ethical business model than just eliminating yourself from their spreadsheets.

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  • Daniël Franke :panheart:ainmosni@ainmosni.eu
    Jul 3, 2026, 7:46 AM

    @revengeday Blaming artists for trying their best to survive the current onslaught of enshittification (and not just of platforms but also of creating art itself) is very counter productive. In the end, we're all facing challenges with the same type of people (or sometimes even literally the same person) causing it, and we should be supporting each other in this struggle.

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  • CaiCai@gamepad.club
    Jul 3, 2026, 9:34 AM

    @revengeday Bandcamp is not in my circle of subjects, so I missed the sudden tidal wave of backlash. But your experience and this particular frustration is one that spans across many arts, and I thank you for explaining it so well. Supporting artists means fighting for a place where they can sell their art comfortably, not cutting them off from their income stream, jfc 😭

    Fwiw, I'll share your links with a few folks who might be interested in a listen! 👂 🎵

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  • Alexander 😷alxndr@tech.lgbt
    Jul 3, 2026, 12:43 PM

    @revengeday 💜

    I'm usually buying music on Bandcamp Fridays, to make sure the artists get as much of the money as possible. And until we have something better, I'll continue doing that.

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  • alcinnzalcinnz@floss.social
    Jul 3, 2026, 5:29 PM

    @revengeday You know, I tend to find my music via podcasts or elsewhere. They inevitably point me to Bandcamp, I pay generously (I gather massively more than streaming provides!), & I get the internet-download I was wanting. Excellent trade!

    Or at least I did so when I had a half-decent income.

    I have to wonder how many of these decentralized solutions actually engage with the (unfortunate) need to get paid for your (creative) work...

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  • Tom :damnified:thomas@metalhead.club
    Jul 3, 2026, 8:28 AM

    @revengeday oh, obviously I missed some drama about Bandcamp :D

    Don't listen to the loud people. They're not right most of the time (and they don't live your reality).

    They should be happy that you offer your music on Bandcamp, not just Spotify or somewhere else. 👍️

    You're doing the right thing.

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  • Morgan ⚧️raphaelmorgan@disabled.social
    Jul 3, 2026, 5:53 PM

    @revengeday imo it only counts as boycotting *bandcamp* if when one sees a bandcamp link to music they'd like, they go buy music elsewhere (preferably from the same artist). Look for other distribution or donation links, and if they can't find any, ask us how else they can support us. I'm sure a bunch of artists would prioritize selling our music elsewhere if we got any indication that people would actually buy it!
    Without the effort to support the artists, they're just boycotting indie music :/

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  • nLupo :anarchist_flag: :antrans_flag:nlupo@amikejo.xyz
    Jul 2, 2026, 4:56 PM

    @revengeday That's why I'd never advice any youtuber (for an example) to just jump to Peertube. They will lose all their viewers and all their income will go down the drain.

    I usually suggest to use the FOSS alternatives as a backup or as an alternative, not to make blind jumps out of perceived liberty purity.

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  • Ramses Revengeday :revengeday:revengeday@corteximplant.com
    Jul 2, 2026, 5:12 PM

    @nlupo This is exactly the nuanced take that's been missing. The all-or-nothing approach – "jump ship now or you're part of the problem" – is actively harmful to the very people we're supposed to support.

    The YouTuber/PeerTube comparison is spot on. Telling someone to abandon years of work and their entire income overnight for ideological purity? That's just not how the real world works.

    The smarter path: Use FOSS alternatives as a backup, a secondary channel, an additional distribution point. Not as a kamikaze mission.

    And here's the thing – if more of us do exactly that, if we start mirroring content, linking to our Faircamp or PeerTube alongside everything else, then these alternatives will grow. The network effect starts working in their favor. Suddenly there's content there, there's a reason for people to visit, and over time they become viable primary platforms.

    Change doesn't happen through dramatic self-sabotage. It happens through patient, consistent groundwork. One foot in the old world, one foot in the new.

    Activism without strategy is just theater

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  • Jess MahlerJessMahler@indiepocalypse.social
    Jul 3, 2026, 8:21 AM

    @revengeday @nlupo
    This is becoming increasingly the default among indie authors. Use Amazon as an anchor while building following on other platforms.

    It takes time and patience, but works.

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  • Traveling OSM Salesgirl Problem ✊🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🇺🇦🇵🇸contrapunctus@fe.disroot.org
    Jul 3, 2026, 10:51 AM

    @revengeday @nlupo Some comments.

    1. I encourage people to promote freedom-respecting alternatives - funnel people from restricted platforms to freedom-respecting ones - instead of merely using them as backups.

      For example, I post event announcements on restricted platforms (Reddit, Telegram, LinkedIn, etc) as well as freedom-respecting ones (Fedi and XMPP).

      But the announcements are made much later on Telegram than on XMPP, and I always let them know that they can get information much sooner on XMPP.

      And our community channels are on XMPP. At the end of each event, we encourage people to join them.

      And when someone asks us about the best place to get announcements, we always recommend Fedi and XMPP.

      Having exclusive content on freedom-respecting platforms, and consistently encouraging people to join them, can help bring more people there.

    2. I’m not sure of how the YouTube monetization stuff works, so correct me if I’m wrong…but it seems doubtful to me if there’s any incentive for YouTube creators to mirror their content to PeerTube. If they rely on YouTube’s ad money, each person watching on a non-monetized platform like PeerTube will be decreasing their income, and also decreasing their view count, making their content less likely to be picked up by the algorithm?

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  • nLupo :anarchist_flag: :antrans_flag:nlupo@amikejo.xyz
    Jul 3, 2026, 11:40 AM

    @contrapunctus @revengeday In case of video making you have to convince all your viewers to change platform, which is difficult to make. Not to mention people will search for you in the stupid apps preinstalled on your phone. I'm not saying the backup solution is permanent, but the safe solution until you build on the free platforms. Guilt tripping won't solve anything.

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  • Marcel Costamarcelcosta@social.anartist.org
    Jul 3, 2026, 3:15 PM

    @revengeday @nlupo

    Thanks for sharing your experience! I think that I can understand many of the points you make.

    Regarding being on comercial platforms, @RAPasso suggested years ago some easy measures that are quite easy to follow and goes in the direction you were pointing:

    antipub.org/resistance-a-l-agr

    In addition, I wanted to share with you @fairplayer project that tries to aggregate music from different free sources into one player (with big focus on consent). For now it is compatible with #faircamp and @mirlo but the idea is to communicate with a whole ecosystem.

    In case you are interested:

    fairplayer.band/

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  • bencourticebencourtice@aus.social
    Jul 3, 2026, 7:38 AM

    @revengeday oppressed people with no power are sometimes tempted to make their friends the target of their resistance because they know at least their friends will listen (at least, the first time... after a while you have to cut off these kind of people)

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  • Renata 🇨🇦🐈🌈renata@cosocial.ca
    Jul 3, 2026, 5:42 PM

    @bencourtice @revengeday Thanks for this. I struggle so bad with people like this in my life and yes I’ve had to, unfortunately, cut some of them off. I feel like they are directing their aggression towards people like them, who are doing their best but are human and will never be perfect, when they should redirect it towards those who are not even trying.

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  • CanageekCanageek@wandering.shop
    Jul 2, 2026, 11:18 PM

    @revengeday you'd also need to pay to host it yourself, right? or like, hosted in your basement?

    I am completely agreeing with you here, I'm a reasonably techy person, but just getting started on setting up my own Internet connected file & chat server is intimidating enough. I've been procrastinating on it for like 2 months now.

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  • Jack-Frostodonjackf723@mastodon.social
    Jul 2, 2026, 11:42 PM

    @Canageek @revengeday You would have to go through a cloud provider if you don't have an older machine you can dedicate to hosting. Most providers have been able to drop costs considerably due to improvements to virtualization across the board. the bigger problem I see is the install and maintenance process not being as turnkey and thus approachable as it could be. THere are small footprint services like Gridpane that have gone to greater lengths to demistify...

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  • CanageekCanageek@wandering.shop
    Jul 2, 2026, 11:44 PM

    @jackf723 @revengeday That's going to be a pretty big cost per month then: the hosts I was seeing in Canada are $10 to $15 a month, so $120 to $180/year before tax

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  • CanageekCanageek@wandering.shop
    Jul 2, 2026, 11:49 PM

    @jackf723 @revengeday Oh, those are much better prices. I'd forgotten about them because they're based three time zones away from me, and I want to host voice chat with minimal latency. My apologies.

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  • Jack-Frostodonjackf723@mastodon.social
    Jul 2, 2026, 11:53 PM

    @Canageek @revengeday All good. You probably could still achieve decent VC performance what with improved codecs plus their on-paper specs being far better for the price. If nothing else it'll at least give you more than sufficient coverage for the web server plus space. On a similar token, try Azuracast (far easier install compared to plain Icecast) if you want a decent internet streaming setup with web management of the playlists and schedules.

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  • CanageekCanageek@wandering.shop
    Jul 2, 2026, 11:45 PM

    @jackf723 @revengeday Yeah, if it was preset up like when I set up TeamSpeak, where I just literally selected TeamSpeak from a drop-down menu and then selected how many users I wanted to support would help a lot.

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