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  • Oct 21, 2026, 1:07 PM

    having used llms before for work, i have first hand experience of the effects they have on your mind, especially if you use them for creation (like writing code)

    they're addictive gambling machines, even if you know they are. they can't be used responsibly. after stopping with their use for work, i noticed myself reaching for them. it took me months to fully recover. there was also very noticeable skill atrophy

    i knew of the many issues, but these things work on your monkey brain, they're
    very hazardous

    if you use them and you're not forced to use them, stop using them. they are not worth it in any way. if you can't stop using them for work, try to avoid them outside of work as much as possible. harm reduction is a valid strategy

    this technology needs to be eliminated, there is no way to salvage it

    and this is me focusing on the psychological issues, there are way more severe social and ethical issues with it

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Replies

  • Oct 21, 2026, 1:11 PM

    also, i don't subscribe to notions of purity. if you've used llms before and reject them now, or only use then for work, or use them in your personal life but try to avoid them: i still support you!

    no one is too far gone
    ​:neocat_heart:​

    i reject the tech, not the people

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  • Oct 21, 2026, 1:19 PM

    @lumi I think potential bad interactions with human psychology and ai making you believe things that you shouldn't were kind of amongst the first biggest issues I had with it at some point.

    Both individually and on a broader level (People tend to kind of repeat stuff they see/hear, if people hear/see a lot of phrases AI uses, that's just gonna be how people talk for example)

    That's kind of been completely cycled out of discussions though unfortunately.

    I wonder if packaged properly, it might actually be something that can convince many different types of people?

    Like, LLMs are lead or poison for the brain/To optimize your brain functioning, avoid LLM use/Avoiding LLMs is a health decision/Maybe some other framings

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  • Oct 21, 2026, 1:27 PM

    @lumi I wanted to give some benefit of the doubt when I noticed someone with a number of years using them in a fairly proficient manner.

    My regular observations with students was that the decline was pretty clear but with an expert it was not so much so I was pondering "Okay, maybe this is reasonable?"

    Then tick 2 months and you start noticing they are getting slower, they are struggling to keep up with peers who aren't using them - consistency problems set in.

    4 months in - they are very slow and they recognise the issues as well and they lean harder into it but a couple of weeks and there is a proper "I think I need to get my shit together" moment.

    They don't use it and they start getting their speed back but it almost takes the amount of time they lost to get their capabilities back.

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  • Oct 21, 2026, 11:20 PM

    @ahto i was thinking maybe a few members of our team were among the Exalted Few who can actually use these to generate good output, because clearly they had been reading it and amending it ... but the PRs im getting now suggest from their form that they're not even looking at the slop any more

    @lumi

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  • Oct 22, 2026, 12:23 AM

    @erisceleste @ahto that's how it often goes, at the start they read and review everything, their output is only slightly degraded in quality

    but as they use it more, a few things happen: their skills atrophy, they get addicted, and they get more confident. there's also their own idea of self worth that won't let them admit to it, so they fall more and more into it

    these slop machines are extremely harmful

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  • Oct 22, 2026, 2:26 PM

    @lumi @erisceleste

    Definitely.

    * These things become a very poor substitute for building intuition or learning topics. Some of the worst things happen to learners with these things.

    They will treat topics and texts as a kind of set of incantations that you must follow and repeat the reasoning as if they that is "what it is".

    The problem with these learners is that:
    * They struggle to understand that they really do not know much about the topic area

    * It has a veneer of looking competent, they can "talk-the-talk" but really struggle to perform - It causes them to be misclassified as someone who only has a shallow understanding of a topic area and they cannot diagnose themselves

    * Mix this with being trained to lean into these systems, they then lose their ability to apply different learning strategies when needed and can only rely on this one. As outlined in a prior post - it is a greedy strategy and it is one that is rewarded with a chatbot that flatters you.

    I should say, the greedy learning strategy messes with memory quite a bit. A comparison here would be if someone could only learn by typing in a google search and taking the first hit. I won't deny that there is some validity in doing this but it misses the breadth of the topic and focuses on the outcome only.

    ---

    *sigh*

    I really must express the following though because this is unfortunately going to be much more common.

    Do you know how hard it is to help someone who has such a broken model of a topic area?

    * It is hard to identify
    * When identified, it is difficult to understand the severity, you have to ask a lot of hard questions
    * It is mentally exhausting for both people involved
    * It can feel very demoralising and people can feel 'exposed'
    * It can be difficult for people to comprehend the issues they have
    * People can just simply withdraw completely or run away from the problem as it ends up being a source of anxiety
    * As the educator, you have to come up with some bespoke set of resources to assist them
    * People can just be confused or in a state of confusion, have difficulty comprehending the world as well.

    When you do get an opportunity to help/fix the issues - it takes so long and it is always a rough journey where you always feel like you aren't sure if they haven't started relying on them again.

    Then the inevitable disappointment of them using these tools after telling you they wouldn't because they understand that it was damaging their learning.

    It is a glimpse of what a future of relying on LLMs will be.

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  • Oct 23, 2026, 5:03 PM

    @ahto @lumi @erisceleste

    My kid was doing really well in 2nd grade math so she got secretly bumped over the summer to 4th grade math.

    Sounds a bit like what we were dealing with trying to recover from that missing step.

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  • Oct 23, 2026, 12:16 PM

    @ahto @lumi i'd like to get more info on this. How did you notice ? What are you evaluating? I'm not using it so I need to know whatbto looknfor on my peers

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  • Oct 23, 2026, 2:23 PM

    @quimnuss @lumi

    I will say, keep in mind that this is software development related. It may not apply directly to another area.

    I would sort this by competency:

    Beginner/Learner:

    * Polarising confidence, either very low or very high

    * Quickly get a kind of "Pull the lever again" behaviour, similar to someone at the pokies who wants to re-roll and spends on trying to get the solution again

    * Gets heavily exposed to this via Copilot in VSCode when they first download it - assumes this is how it has been all the time

    * If they have developed good learning strategies prior, you may find they lean into the machine more - so people who use to write and note things down just use the LLM to explain things

    * Uses the LLM chat window for notes

    * Does not like explaining code without comments littered through out it all

    * Concerns themselves with aesthetics of trivial code (in part, semi-deceptive behaviour)

    * Long term use usually results in barely being able to solve trivial problems - they find something like "Building a linked list" hard when the interface is different

    * Mismatch between understanding of language constructs and their code submissions

    * Will build very poor associations, example, associate for loops with a loop that prints 1 to 10 and treat things as an incantation.

    Intermediate/Expert:

    * Confidence ranges, can be overconfident and arrogant or confident - however they start making subtle mistakes that get considered as "wins" in the workplace

    * Is aware of what are decent measures and actions of good software but tries to automate them (see - automating test cases, they will miss things where the LLM will invent things or have a mismatch to meet the requirement of ensuring that things pass)

    * Either never had a good sense of systems and accepts that everything it generates is good enough (example, when LLM will generate solution to a problem involving scheduling tasks to run at certain times, it may generate some signal based approach that they assume is correct)

    If the user is comfortable with that space, they usually overlook things for the sake of time.

    * Quality and scrutiny degrades, this is because of two things:
    a) You stop writing and therefore it isn't fresh in your head what quality looks like
    b) You get conditioned to the slop sent your way that you become less engaged and you also are overwhelmed.

    * What you should observe is practical read times for people in the profession. If the generated code is 10000 lines.

    Are they actually reading that many lines within time-to-gen and time-to-commit. The obvious answer is no for most people but I'll say, some will scrutinise for a long period but when conditioned to this, it becomes a "hassle" and they will start preferencing risk if it means "getting more done" and "looking good".

    * Conduct and detail in written communication not matching verbal

    I found that it is always an interesting experience to just hop on a call with a sloperator and get them to explain their patch/PR/commit. Just asking questions that they never asked themselves.

    In addition, there is a formulaic way in which the written communication occurs and speaks to others in.

    * They become unimaginative

    This is just a side effect of outsourcing your ability to think and understand a problem domain.

    * No upskilling will result in antiquated knowledge and skills

    When programming languages evolve and change, a experts knowledge is kinda locked when they started using them more so, it means that they start backsliding and build very poor associations with things.

    ---

    What you will find that consistent is that there is a general euphoria they get from these things.

    They become happy they got it done and live to survive another day rather than not which unfortunately speaks to a fairly understandable world view.

    In some cases: Memory issues occur and these can be quite severe, generally there is an impatience and frustration with themselves for "need to describe it better" or "not being smart enough".

    ---

    However, let's think about this another way as well.

    Many software engineers have learned a variety of languages before, let's take C and Python.

    When people don't practice C and have been practicing nothing but python, they will view and depend on structures in that environment lot and the transition to C is going to be fraught with either needing to remember a bunch of things you hadn't practice or just re-learning foundations again as if you are a beginner.

    What is worse here is the randomness and lack of precision here. If your writing ability gets compromised your ability to write spec is too, the spec that I am referring to are the prompts to an LLM.

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  • Oct 23, 2026, 2:42 PM

    @quimnuss @lumi

    Better yet, here is another way to think about how toxic it can be for a learner.

    * They have an assessment coming up and they pay someone else to do the work for them (contract cheating)

    They obviously feed them the assessment doc, requirements and all that. The person solving the problem does it and the student hands it in.

    Oh look we have bypassed actually learning anything

    ---

    This is similar for an expert, it is quite noticeable when they comment on things they aren't experts in unfortunately become a meatproxy for the bot as their skills degrade to the bot level or further and simply just trust it.

    Pretty much, any implication or action that is resulting in plagiarism is going to result in a degradation or not even being able to reach that level in the first place.

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  • Oct 21, 2026, 2:48 PM

    @lumi am wondering rn... what would you say for using it as mh tool?
    like... I don't have anyone I can dump my issues on, those who offered it backed out of it, often after a week or two already.
    I no longer trust therapists as my trust has been broken repeatedly and I got kicked out by multiple therapists.

    (ik bout chat bot psychosis and the sui related issues)

    am just considering it cause I'm freaking desperate and see no other way!

    thoughts?

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  • Oct 21, 2026, 11:40 PM

    @shadowfals @lumi journaling, writing @ fedi toots ohne recipient and such, all tried, big issue with all that is that our problems seem so unseen and cause of that it doesn't help really...
    there's a fundamental need to get seen... something that dosen't respond doesn't work (also not friends we can dump on but who are unable to emphasize!)

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  • Oct 23, 2026, 10:09 AM

    @littlerao @lumi
    Definitely DO NOT use genAI as a mental health tool. They can create or enhance existing psychological problems and lead to suicide. Please don't. There must be human-based support groups either in real life or online that you can reach out to instead. Why not us here? :)

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  • Oct 23, 2026, 10:20 AM

    @elduvelle @littlerao @lumi I would concur with this- there are too many examples of LLMs encouraging self-harm or suicide to feel that this is a good route.

    If you really want to use a computer that is simply reflecting back to you - elizaemulator.com/ Eliza was doing this 50 years ago. And was much safer. And yes, people found it helpful for this.

    LLMs won't help you. They will simply encourage you. It might feel the same, depending on how they encourage you, but it is not.

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  • Oct 23, 2026, 6:49 PM

    @littlerao @lumi

    See if there are any peer support groups in your area. Your local mental health services should have some, and then there are groups like NAMI where it's open to everybody and free etc.

    Therapists can be good, but finding a good fit can be a real problem. Peers-- other people who've had their own mental health stuff-- understand some stuff most therapists don't.

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  • ChuckChuckMcManis@chaos.social
    Oct 22, 2026, 3:30 AM

    @lumi Kind of like using a bump of cocaine to keep going "just this one time." Great productivity boost.

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  • Oct 22, 2026, 4:47 AM

    @lumi

    This kinda puzzles me, because you know how they answer difficult questions with wild guesses and making stuff up? I find that both useless and seriously offensive.

    I also find their “you're absolutely right” mannerisms deeply unsettling.

    I tend to judge their behavior as I would a human's, and a human who talks like that, I'd write off as a total sleazebag!

    Why anyone would enjoy and actively choose to use such a thing, I cannot fathom.

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  • Oct 22, 2026, 5:17 AM

    @lumi

    I was fortunate enough to try AI last year when they were hilariously bad for writing code. I would ask it the same very basic interview questions that I do for actual interviews. The answers were highly confident, looked decent, and even compiled. The results were astonishingly bad.

    From what I see now, the results would absolutely kill people if used in a production environment I am responsible for.

    The entire reason why I switched to Linux as my desktop back in 1997, because Windows on production lines nearly killed me after a fire, violent explosion, and chlorine gas. Now that slop is the way of the Linux kernel, I am critically aware of safety once again...

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  • Oct 22, 2026, 7:25 AM

    @lumi I'm not trying to be a dick, but how would this be different from any useful tool? If I substituted 'llm' in your toot with 'wrench' would it still make sense?

    I'm not trying to bat for llms. They are a multi-trillion dollar industry. I'm just trying to find my philosophical footing in this debate.

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  • Oct 22, 2026, 11:50 AM

    @lumi In the same way that LLMs don't give out the same answer twice and can be wrong but overall are very useful and become a crutch, wrenches have inaccuracies with slightly bent handle, out of spec head that can give wrong result but overall are very useful and become a crutch.

    In this example wrenches are replacing a person using handmade custom keys to turn nuts and bolts.

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  • Oct 23, 2026, 1:28 PM

    @Madagascar_Sky @lumi I think the big difference is that people use LLMs even when the right tool is available. If I have a set of bike tools, I’ll not going to use an adjustable wrench because of wrench addiction. And I’m not going to try to use a wrench as a hammer or screwdriver when I have those things lying there.

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  • Oct 23, 2026, 2:17 PM

    @bollino313 @lumi It definately is faster to use wrenches rather than going and making custom keys every time.

    I'm getting it has a lot to do with cognitive dependence on LLMs and losing one's own innate thinking abilities.

    You don't lose much when you couldn't tighten nuts with your hands so had to use wrenches. But humans are about thinking and thinking well to begin with.

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  • Oct 22, 2026, 10:29 PM

    @lumi glad to hear you were able to recover

    I have wondered myself if it is reversible in all cases

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  • Oct 23, 2026, 10:25 AM

    @lumi Yep, agree. When I was working (I am so glad to be 3 weeks retired) there was always the temptation to ask Claude for help, when I actually just needed to work it out myself.

    Not least because that would be quicker, although it would take more of my time.

    And yes, I saw this in my colleagues (who had a lot more pressure to use them). And the psychological issues are significant and important. We should not ignore these - the deliberate deskilling that they cause. The removal of thinking power.

    I have never had any to use outside work and will not use any. I hate this tech, for so many reasons.

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  • Oct 23, 2026, 10:52 AM

    @lumi You described exactly my experience with LLMs. I used them for test-driving spec-driven development using a free tier of a chinese LLM.

    After my third project I realized that I longed for LLM's help. It was like I wasn't able to kickstart even the smallest project by myself. A simple, 30-liner python script had become a fearsome monster.

    I realized what was happening and I stopped using the stuff altogether.

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  • Oct 23, 2026, 10:57 AM

    @lumi in my experience LLMs have a destructive effect on all my ways of dealing with ADHD (and mh stuff in general).

    To be able to do creative work I need to enter some sort of flow state, and the beginning of me working at a problem is most difficult, in the beginning I struggle with imposter syndrome, perfectionism telling me that if I can't see a solution immediately then I should just give up, ADHD executive dysfunction demotivating me, etc.

    The smart and working solution to this (for me) is to divide the problem into steps as small as possible and chipping at it until I stumble on a big chunk I can finally work off of. The big chunk is usually an eureka moment in understanding, a well written human post on a similar problem, finding something I've done before I can work from.

    Now... LLMs are antithetical to this, if I give up and use an LLM as a search engine or to give me a starting point I will not enter the flow state, using the LLM will lock me in the awful state of me not being able to start actually working on the problem. It's an extreme form of dependence and shows my brain "see, you don't need to do the work, you can just offload the cognition" and that is dangerously addictive to me... Every time I use it, it reinforces that in me.

    So yeah. Fuck no.

    And even if I choose not to use it, others do. Search engines have gotten worse, human answers to problems are less common and harder to find even if they exist. It's debilitating. It's soul crushing to live in a world that decided the two greatest things in my life (learning and interacting with people) are worthless commodities.

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