At the tram stop just now, right next to some of the best bicycle infrastructure you'll ever see, an American tourist came to me to ask me if the Dutch government was doing anything about "this terrible bicycle problem" we have in the Netherlands. 🙃
He was really concerned to see so many bicycles everywhere. To his American brain, bicyclists were a terrible thing. He said he almost got hit by a bicyclist multiple times today. (Presumably by walking in the middle of the bicycle road. I don't know how else you manage to do that.) 🙃
If you want to exprience our "terrible bicycle problem" yourself, here's a video I recorded a few years ago of me biking through the area: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZUHHBbz_kQ
(Said tram stop is roughly at the start of the video.)
@Mara lol. Did you ask him if they were doing anything about the gun problem in America?
@Mara I wish Germany was this terrible.
@Mara lovely, I wish the city where I live had this much bike infrastructure. There are some very nice scenic bike routes outside of town, but inside it's mostly narrow lanes painted on pre-existing sidewalks and roads and most of the drivers take them as suggestions at best or outright ignore them.
@matus_chochlik @Mara and pedestrians have to leap out the way at the sound of the imperious ping ping
@peterbrown @matus_chochlik @Mara, if they have a sense of etiquette they won't have that problem.
@peterbrown around here some pedestrians have the habit of walking or even better standing in small groups while talking right in the bike lanes or even on the few of the bike routes that are built separately from the sidewalks and roads. In such case, of course, obviously, they do get the dreaded imperious ping-ping.
@Mara
I've read some anecdotal evidence that having streamers on your bicycle handlebars has the effect of making cars give you your space in bicycle lanes.
I'd love it if someone did a study on that.
@Stuck_Here @Mara I've seen that too, and I'm slightly worried there would be some ethical concerns about putting the control group of that experiment in mortal danger :P
@Mara That is truly amazing. I'm so embarrassed to be American too much of the time 🤦♀️
Also, that American has clearly never been in NYC. I often wonder how other cities do it, but most are not as dense as Manhattan. There are so many types, regular people with bikes, tourists on city bikes, food delivery people on electric bikes, box and parcel delivery people also on electric bikes, and regular scooters and electric scooters going in all directions. Your ride was serene 😊
Oct 5, 2026, 5:04 AM
@Mara Do you have an electric bike or are you just really fast?
@Mara you have bike ROADS? I want that! (US - Texas - suburb. We have sidewalks and riding trails that are not meant to get you around the city, just for recreation)
Oct 4, 2026, 4:24 PM@Mara One problem might be that in much of the world this sign means "pedestrians please walk here".
@cford We don't have those signs anywhere here. We have these:
Oct 4, 2026, 4:27 PM@Mara Ah. No ambiguity there.
Oct 4, 2026, 8:01 PMOct 4, 2026, 8:03 PM@richlv This means "pedestrians please cross".
Oct 4, 2026, 8:05 PM@richlv This means "no pedestrians".
I remember learning in the driving classes: triangle signs mean "danger", round red signs mean "forbidden", round blue signs mean "mandatory", square signs are "information" signs. And then there's the inverted triangle -- yield -- and the hexagon -- stop -- both identifiable even if seen from the opposite side.
Oct 5, 2026, 5:06 AM
Oct 5, 2026, 6:47 AM@SchwarzeLocke @ammdias @cford @richlv yes there is that variant that I forgot about. I was referring to red circle for prohibition.
@smsm1 @ammdias @cford Yeah, apparently mostly not a thing in EU, but otherwise - almost random from country to country.
https://mastodon.social/@richlv/117387297222069777
Going back to the "Pedestrian crossing" sign above, it actually doesn't mean "pedestrians please cross", as it is not directed at pedestrians. It is instead directed at drivers and, being a triangular sign, means "Danger: pedestrian crossing ahead", implying that they should slow down and be careful approaching it. It is usually followed by this sign, just before the zebra painting on the road, that indicates (informs) "This is a crosswalk."
Oct 4, 2026, 4:24 PM@Mara at least 2 ways:
* The bicyclist cycling on the footpath. I was once injured by one crashing into me from behind. He was going as fast as bikes could go. There was a bike lane but for some reason he wasn't using it.
* By not stopping on a red traffic light (or just not following the general traffic rules). My 4 year old came very close to being hit by a fast bike a few weeks ago, when we both were about to step on the street after the traffic light turned green for us (which meant they were definitely red for the bicyclist for a good 5s before that).
Oct 4, 2026, 4:35 PMOct 4, 2026, 4:38 PM@zeenix @Mara Tourists that are unfamiliar with the concept of three separated paved spaces (cars, bikes, pedestrians) sometimes incorrectly assume that the bike lanes are pedestrian lanes, ignore the signage, and essentially wander into (bicycle) traffic and then get angry. This is the North America equivalent of walking out into the middle of a busy highway and getting mad at the cars.
Oct 4, 2026, 5:10 PM
Oct 4, 2026, 9:07 PM@LukefromDC @mekki @Mara it's not a coincidence. As drivers they're forced to follow the rules. As cyclists, nobody cares because the chances of you killing someone with a bike are almost negligible.
Anyway, I was sure it wouldn't take long before someone makes it about "cars vs bikes" and you proved me right rather quickly. So thanks!
@zeenix @mekki @Mara In some parts of the US (FL is the worst) the cops are more concerned about hunting migrants for ICE than they are about aggressive driving.
Basically I am asking the folks whining about bikes to shut up because it could have been cars. In the US if you get hit on the road it will almost always be by a car or worse an SUV. I'd love to have the Netherland's "bike problem" instead!
@zeenix @LukefromDC @mekki @Mara Drivers essentially never follow the rules, which is one reason they kill people every day.
@zeenix @LukefromDC @mekki @Mara So cars are killing people and bikes aren't, and the problem you choose to focus on is bikes, because...?
@LukefromDC @zeenix @mekki @Mara Yeah. I was hit by a bicycle a few years ago, on a major road, probably at full speed. I was shaken up, and I have a minor scar on one knee. Such a better way to live.
@mekki @zeenix @Mara I was in Amsterdam, and I didn't see a separate bridge every time I needed to cross the cycling path ;)
Seriously though. I'm extremely jealous of their infrastructure, but I understand where the American is coming from. Cyclists in the Netherlands don't seem to give a damn about pedestrians.
@zeenix @Mara yes, I am acquainted with two children who were hit by bicycles in public parks and one was lucky to not have permanent injuries.
I have also personally been hit by a bicycle on a crossing in a public park and I can confirm it is a very painful experience.
There are two impacts- one when the bicycle and rider hit you and a second when you stop flying through the air and hit the tarmac.
Measuring bicycle safety only by numbers of KSI is a serious mistake.
@zeenix @Mara however it has to be remembered that cyclists have a rough time on the road and the stupidity is not always theirs.
But Driver stupidity is a lot more serious as they’re driving over a ton of metal, and just as cyclists should always give way to pedestrians, motorists should always give way to cyclists and pedestrians.
One day, perhaps….
@peterbrown @zeenix @Mara I suspect bicycles are pretty much as sustainable as walking, and way more efficient (in distance per energy burned).
@zeenix dude, she's not talking about in your country, she's taking about in her country. What's the point in coming in and saying "well, in this totally different context you're wrong actually"?
E: good, block me, you baby. I attacked you because you're mansplaining!
Oct 4, 2026, 10:02 PM@Hyperlynx she said she doesn't know how that can happen and I described 2 different scenarios of how it can happen that actually happened to me. Berlin isn't that different. I know because I've been to the Netherlands many times. But you just saw a "dude" saying something that doesn't fit the "bikes are awesome and cars are horrible" B&W picture in you head and you just had to attack him.
@Mara Someone here (California, US) was arguing against bicycle infrastructure because it took space from cars, and did not remove any cars from the road. The basic argument was “How dare you spend ‘my’ tax dollars on something that does not directly benefit ‘me’”. The selfishness is stunning.
@gordotango The costs of all of our tax-paid bicycle infrastructure are actually offset multiple times over by the benefits of having a healthy population due to biking being so popular. Effectively, the costs of our bicycle infrastructure is negative. ✨
@Mara Yes. And I actually responded to him that I use my bicycle around town more when it is safer. I replace about 10 trips a week with my bicycle, and rarely use a car around town. We also have horrific pedestrian infrastructure.
But it DOES remove cars from the road. As does transit. People fighting for cars are fighting a losing battle as climate change will force the issue soon.
@Mara I have heard a couple people here (US) get worked up about bicyclists being in their way when they're driving. I don't understand it. If we could replace a third of the people on the road with bicyclists, wouldn't driving be better? People here seem so mentally captured by certain ideas, like they fully internalize the propaganda: bicycles are a menace on the road, and it's not a meal if it doesn't have meat.
@sillyCoelophysis Almost everywhere in this area, the bicycle roads are fully separate from the car roads.
@Mara huh. How can that possibly be a problem?
In the US I can kind of understand why bikes seem annoying, because they are forced to be part of the road with cars, unless they want to ride on the sidewalk, which is not a good idea either. Still, that should just make people who are insistent on driving cars ask for a better system for bikes. Bicyclists get hurt or killed here pretty often. They *should* have their own, separate roads.
it's because Americans are just mental. They seriously have issues understanding anything they don't want to understand. Fucking morons.
@darwinwoodka nodding and laughing...might be a slight generalization, however I cannot disagree on principle @sillyCoelophysis @Mara
@Lizette603_23 @darwinwoodka @Mara I mean I'm not going to "not all Americans" here. Taken in aggregate, we are certainly of questionable moral and social capacity. 😅
@sillyCoelophysis @Lizette603_23 @Mara
I mean hey I am one too after all
It does seem the percentage of truly moronic ones is down to 31% from the last survey I saw.
Oct 4, 2026, 4:27 PM@Mara "cultural differences"... x)
... I in turn was not too delighted to hardly ever find a sidewalk in Cali. 🙃
@CyReVolt @Mara I agree, I was stuck in a hotel in Texas with no food, and no car. I could see an Applebees about 300 metres away.
It took me half an hour to reach it, walking alongside roads, scrambling down (and back up) steep thornbush-covered banks, and sprinting across a four-lane road. It was even more fun in the dark on the way back.
I'm probably lucky not to have stood on a snake.
@Mara tbf, as a foreigner, even crossing a Dutch bike path takes substantial care and I have once collided with a cyclist in Zwolle while trying to cross the street
this is not to defend the tourist, because wtf
