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  • [object Object]zzt@mas.to
    Sep 10, 2026, 9:59 AM

    I’d like to say that grapheneOS is legitimately excellent for hardening Android, for sandboxing google play services, for making AOSP and private Android relatively usable

    but now I have a lot of information about what they consider exploit analysis (throwing an LLM at it because everyone else is doing it) and threat analysis (fedi is kiwi farms). my confidence is shaken. these people have been confidently asserting that their practices are best in class or near best in class. are they really?

    I’m not sure the people using LLMs who couldn’t accurately talk about LLMs, and who deleted the posts where they talked about all this just to disrupt conversation once the backlash came, are people I can trust to honestly analyze their own work

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  • [object Object]zzt@mas.to
    Sep 10, 2026, 9:59 AM

    anyway your reminder that the above thread is what GrapheneOS thinks kiwi farms harassment looks like

    that’s the threat model

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  • [object Object]zzt@mas.to
    Sep 10, 2026, 10:07 AM

    also, it’s gotta be pointed out

    graphene was previously on here starting shit because an article on degoogled android forks dared to mention options that weren’t graphene (they’ll deny this happened if you ask them, they’re kind of notorious for gaslighty responses)

    the practical reason why a lot of people use grapheneOS is because you can use google play services in a relatively private way

    grapheneOS is trying to lay exclusive claim to the term degoogled, but they’re the most googled AOSP fork

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  • d@nny disc@hipsterelectron@circumstances.run
    Sep 10, 2026, 10:03 AM

    @zzt daniel micay has been subject to kf harrassment in the past. he's being remarkably obtuse if he's comparing this to that

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  • [object Object]zzt@mas.to
    Sep 10, 2026, 10:06 AM

    @hipsterelectron their official account very much is. they’re directly stating that the critique on fedi is kiwi farms harassment being rebroadcast here

    like, it fucking sucks that the kiwi farms harassment happened, but critique isn’t harassment and fedi isn’t kiwi farms

    I realize you don’t need me to say the above and I feel weird having to say it but neither you nor I made the accusation that grapheneOS did

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  • [object Object]zzt@mas.to
    Sep 10, 2026, 10:08 AM

    @hipsterelectron legitimately I hope there’s a way

    I don’t know where to go if I can’t trust grapheneOS, this was my plan going forward for my mobile devices

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  • joepie91 needs more railing (🔜 eth0)joepie91@slightly.tech
    Sep 10, 2026, 12:39 PM

    @hipsterelectron @zzt I tried this years ago in a conflict between daniel and some other folks (techlore iirc), and eventually dropped out because it just wasn't possible to have a clear conversation about it, and every misunderstanding however tiny immediately converted into a nuclear blast, making it impossibly stressful.

    likewise I hope that there's a way to make it work, but that *is* going to require some work from daniel at some point, and personally I'm inclined to conclude by this point that daniel just doesn't want to do that. I have no reason to doubt that daniel was genuinely harrassed and traumatized in the past but that also can't be a perpetual shield against criticism or justification for harming others...

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  • Adam_aD@hachyderm.io
    Sep 10, 2026, 5:46 PM

    @zzt I'm always glad that some people can be that naïve.

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  • Nicovel0 🍉Nicovel0@mastodon.social
    Sep 10, 2026, 10:12 AM

    @zzt oh interesting. Graphene OS means buying a Google device anyway (or Motorola, which is deeply involved with the Israeli gov). I guess I’ll explore Lineage OS and /e/ instead.

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  • David Gerarddavidgerard@circumstances.run
    Sep 10, 2026, 10:54 AM

    @Nicovel0 @zzt Fairphone is an ok phone, unlocked bootloader, officially supports e/os and sponsors postmarketos

    like it's basically Wholefood Liberal Phone but y'know it's an ok phone

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  • MeznorMeznor@mstdn.social
    Sep 10, 2026, 11:01 AM

    @davidgerard @Nicovel0 @zzt I would have bought a fairphone if they had it in Canada. At the time I needed a new phone, I went with a secondhand pixel because I could install graphene on it. Next time I need a phone I'm buying a repairable flip phone that has a removeable battery lol. It all needs to burn in a fire. We need a great regression of tech, but with basic, human- and life-centred principles.

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  • Space Hobospacehobo@teh.entar.net
    Sep 10, 2026, 12:14 PM

    @Nicovel0 @davidgerard @zzt I've had one for the past couple years, and it's everything I needed. I stick to @fdroidorg apps and occasionally chuckle at the number of trackers that slipped through my browser's protections, which /e/ caught.

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  • David Gerarddavidgerard@circumstances.run
    Sep 10, 2026, 11:27 AM

    @iseyk @Nicovel0 @zzt i mean i'm happy with my Fairphone 5! Minus points: front camera is sorta shit, and the snap-off plastic back means it's got no real water resistance. No 3.5mm jack but lots of phones don't now, so sigh. I believe F6 has a screw-on back so it's better for water resistance.

    i use stock Android 15 (cos i have commercial apps i need and i could fuck around with compatibility on something else or i could not do that) and that only has Google standard fuckery

    the F5 is a reasonably capable phone that doesn't fuck me around, that's a win these days

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  • isaaciseyk@mastodon.social
    Sep 10, 2026, 11:32 AM

    @davidgerard @Nicovel0 @zzt Sounds good enough for me, I'm easily impressed. Also I see now you meant "phone for wholefood liberals" and not "liberal phone by wholefoods". I was worried lol

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  • The Casual Criticthecasualcritic@writing.exchange
    Sep 10, 2026, 12:05 PM

    @davidgerard @iseyk @Nicovel0 @zzt

    I'm on a Fairphone 4 and it's still doing great, especially since I gave it a new battery. I've been thinking about e/OS for whenever i have to upgrade, but the idea that critical apps (eg banking) may not work does put me off. Do you have a sense for how reasonable that worry is?

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  • Sarcastic stochastic carrot.rightsprung@c.im
    Sep 10, 2026, 10:58 AM

    @Nicovel0 @zzt

    Murena Teracube on e/os isn't bad. Its my choice after a ton of research and an older pinephone. It will be better when they improve the camera.

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  • Nicolas Dandrimontolasd@mastodon.opportunis.me
    Sep 10, 2026, 10:59 AM

    @zzt I wonder how they'll be linking their "kiwi farms harassment" with their usual "/e/os is a french government psyop to erode your privacy" schtick

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  • Jonah Aragonjonah@neat.computer
    Sep 10, 2026, 1:46 PM

    @zzt it’s tough that GrapheneOS is *both* the best de-Googled and the best Googled experience for Android simultaneously, because that makes it hard for anyone to realistically justify not using it given the option.

    Nearly all other “de-Googled” forks including Calyx and /e/ remain extremely Googled, simply because AOSP itself is extremely Googled and these forks don’t attempt to replace any of the networked services. Even microG is largely just a more convoluted way to directly connect to Google servers for a lot of stuff, outside of a limited number of things they can change like location services.

    I’m not saying I *don’t* want to recommend GrapheneOS to people, but—as it is in any field—more actual competition would be an extremely welcome thing :/

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