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  • Nov 10, 2026, 7:00 PM

    here's a take that'll please no one: the belief that computers are difficult to use—especially foss and tools related to programming—is mostly constructed by politics and marketing, not by any inherent characteristics of the software. reasoning: (a) people master very complicated and user-hostile processes *all the time*. knitting, driving a car on the interstate, playing a musical instrument, being a baseball fan, using the subway—all just as complicated imo as (e.g.) learning the command line

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 7:05 PM

    (b) this is totally anecdotal, but as someone who has been teaching computer programming to adults for ~20yrs or so, the biggest obstacle that students face is not that the material is difficult (even when it *is* difficult), but that students are *culturally predisposed to a belief that they're not smart enough to program*, which acts as a permission structure for giving up. (this is peculiar, because no one having trouble in a knitting class thinks "i guess i'm not smart enough to knit")

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 7:09 PM

    (c) programmers are predisposed to convincing others that programming is too complicated for "normal people" as a means of job security and achieving social status; computer manufacturers and their software-making friends are predisposed to a marketing message that states: computers are too difficult for normal people, so buy this new machine/software, which is finally the computer/software that normal people can use! together both sides form a kind of mutual ratchet imo

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 7:05 PM

    @aparrish none of these things are actually outside of most peoples capacity but we receive more support for some things to learn than others. which: is politics !! you're right and you should say it

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 9:16 PM

    @t54r4n1 @aparrish I have maintained that who is designated the keeper of the province of a space dictates the accessibility in learning to use it

    Forgive the gender essentialism of eons of society but:

    Traditionally “women’s” domains (knitting, etc) are replete with teaching opportunities and are learner-friendly

    By contrast, “men’s” domains* (computers) presume expertise and are learner-hostile

    *post the usurpation of the specialization once the scent of money appeared

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 10:56 PM

    @t54r4n1 @paeneultima is it replete with teaching, though? my experience of driver's ed is having the world's angriest, buzzcuttedest man throw me in front of the wheel, telling me to drive, then yelling at me when i did it wrong. this is "teaching" only in the broadest sense of the term

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 7:11 PM

    (the trope of the "computer nerd" in media is such an effective embodiment of both sides of this rhetoric that its prevalence almost seems like a conspiracy imo)

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 7:16 PM

    anyway, whenever someone says something like "LLMs have finally made programming accessible to normal people!" I try to remember that the Silicon And Fossil Fuel Pyramid Scheme Industry has spent literally hundreds billions of dollars in an effort to convince you that computers were *already difficult to use* (a grift that computer programmers are largely in on!) and to politicize LLMs as being "easy to use" in contrast

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 7:34 PM

    @aparrish Presented to you by the same people that convinced (almost) everyone that simple text and images need proprietary container formats

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 7:45 PM

    @aparrish I think we could do a lot to:

    1) Make programming feel more accessible and less hostile
    2) Make it actually more accessible (through simpler languages, better documentation, higher-level abstractions, nicer interfaces)
    3) Educate people to increase their skill

    Simultaneously lower the floor, extend a ladder, and encourage people to increase their confidence.

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 7:48 PM

    @aparrish As far as job security goes, more people should learn to program and more programmers can learn to do more complex things.

    Programmers can move from being expected to run and maintain the car to designing and innovating new techniques and paradigms.

    This also applies to LLMs since they can only (badly) maintain the car but don't have the capacity for this level of expertise. They can glue but can't engineer.

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 7:49 PM

    @aparrish I mostly agree with you here, especially on the "LLMs make computers accessible" tripe, but I do think there's something about the *way* computers are user hostile and complicated that is different. I say this mostly from many years working with non-tech people, and especially my parents. There is *something* different going on there. It's not nearly as large or insurmountable as CompSci people, mass media, or the AI bros want to pretend, but there's something.

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 7:51 PM

    @aparrish I *think* it's about the "virtualness" that makes it feel more like a black box. Yes, absolutely, moderate skill with the command line is no more complicated than moderate skill in the kitchen; I could teach someone to be a programmer more easily than a farmer. But there's something about the ways in which it fails, what you can see and get your hands on, that makes it more intimidating to many people; I think the broader phenomenon is based on taking that and exacerbating it.

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 7:53 PM

    @aparrish probably worth also considering the gendered nature of the computer nerd and how the switch from programming as "women's clerical work" to something more like "Smart Science Man Stuff" came about as personal computers were hitting the market. as in maybe perpetuating the idea helps shore up masculinity, so it is in many people's interests to do so even if they're not computer nerds themselves?

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 9:32 PM

    @aparrish Teaching "no, really, you can do it, it's not that complicated" is a take that pleases me, as a sometime volunteer for Railsbridge and the Ada Developers Academy.

    I think that nerds of the Bill Gates model have had a long run with being special, when the problem was bad software culture and bad learning practices, temporarily enabled by circumstances.

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 9:35 PM

    @aparrish I never shared these views and before reading your explanation thought, in my experience it's about motivation.

    I've tried teaching a few people, including myself and the impediment always seemed to be motivation. I wasn't motivated enough to learn Pascal, my ex wife too, and my now wife wasn't motivated enuf to learn HTML.

    I also think you're right, and part of the lack of motivation can also be over estimating the difficulty. But I always felt anyone can learn if they try. Few did.

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 9:45 PM

    @aparrish this also fits with why I think people are drawn into using #LLMs.

    You need to be motivated in order to learn because the process of creating the brain connections for a new cognitive skill is *hard* and takes time. Two things we tend to dislike.

    #LLM use avoids doing "hard time" which is one reason not to use them, because not learning a discipline means you won't be able to understand, theorise, design, imagine and create in the discipline you avoided learning by prompting an #LLM.

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 9:39 PM

    @aparrish Read up on "Dark Patterns" It would be possible to make reasonable HCI, but they are interested in forcing you to acquiesce. Rather then giving you a tool to use for what you want.

    An alternative theory I have seen is that companies can invest in either:
    --Making quality products, or
    --Marketing (taking CEOs to dinner)
    They have empirically learned that the latter has a better RoI.

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 9:40 PM

    @aparrish I strongly agree with this, and I thank you for expressing these thoughts so well. They're important to see put out there!

    I'm reminded of how many people I've known in my life who wanted to play guitar without learning to play guitar. I feel like we've made the very idea of learning far less accessible than it can be and something to be seen as a friction point rather than an intrinsically rewarding journey in its own right.

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 9:48 PM

    @aparrish Also reminded of how often "LLMs make computers/programming/software accessible" seems anchored around some misunderstanding about existing functionality/capability. I saw a career screenwriter say LLM-as-a-service was great for letting them colour lines based on who was speaking - it's like using the biggest hammer possible to solve a problem that was already solved. How many others are missing out on stuff already available to them that they don't know about? We (devs) can do better

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 9:46 PM

    @aparrish I largely agree with all of this but I do think that there is one thing you're glossing over here that's pretty important: LLMs present a universal affordance. In an appropriate context, like with Chrome's AI goop, you can say "Hey, can you make me a button that will log in to Target and buy more laundry detergent", it will string together something resembling the full sequence of actions required to do it.

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 9:48 PM

    @aparrish That sequence of actions is not *difficult* by any means—given a couple of months I'm pretty sure I could teach an average 11-year-old how to do it if they were motivated—but it is *obscure*. It requires knowing a bunch of stuff about what's possible, that this _is_ a thing you could ask for, the mechanics of something like a browser extension…nothing especially difficult, but the affordance that lets people realize it's possible in the first place is important.

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 9:49 PM

    @aparrish again I definitely agree with you that this is more a consequence of politics and marketing rather than technology. there was a time when a mac would show you AppleScript and HyperCard in the course of onboarding and now it very much does not, it's all buried when the asshole-logo buttons are front and center. but for the vast majority of people this is the first time they've seen a UI that allows them to conceptualize of task automation

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 9:50 PM

    @aparrish I say this because I think that if we want to get rid of them (and BOY HOWDY DO I WANT TO GET RID OF THEM) I think we need to figure out a similar affordance to present traditional automation techniques and a way to get it in front of users. There's a built-in marketing pitch, if we can manage it; "like Chrome's AI, but it's reliable and you can understand what it's doing!" but it's still tough to compete with freeform english-language input box that "does anything"

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 10:11 PM

    @glyph see i think the idea of the LLM as a "universal affordance" is part of what's being propped up with politics and marketing. a chat interface isn't inherently a superior way to do computer stuff—it's just that decades of tech commercials and scifi have convinced people that it *must* be superior. but yeah, from a practical "what should we do" perspective, providing folks with any other kind of interface is definitely an uphill battle

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 10:01 PM

    @glyph @aparrish

    I have noticed a big difference with how I approach things and how family members and friends who haven't built up the same comfort/skills with computers approach things is I assume that it is possible and it's just a matter of figuring it out and stick to that belief until proven otherwise (sometimes even beyond that point but let's not talk about that)

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 10:18 PM

    @aparrish Yes.
    And you could substitute "programming" and "LLM" with any other of the current targets of GenAI.
    Like "drawing" and the slop machines that extrude pixels.

    Add on top a false sense of essentialism.
    (something stupid along the lines of: "artists are privileged to be 'blessed by talent' and GenAI is democratizing access to '{craft perceived as difficult}' to us underprivileged normal people, and the artists are hating it!")

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 10:42 PM

    @aparrish Reminds me when apps like Suno go "we're breaking down the barriers to making music" and I'm like motherfucker have you seen ProTools? Ableton? Reason? Garageband, even? Like, it's so ridiculously easy to start making music now than it ever was because the computer can literally be a complete studio without buying any additional hardware, but, I guess, don't try to learn. The actual barriers were already atomized to dust

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 10:55 PM

    @aparrish Before Microsoft, there were massive campaigns to convince people that computers were easy to use. One of the most common associated googlewords would be "second literacy". Much of the original research into early ARM generations was funded by British government and its corporate allies pursuing a Cheap Home Computer, not as an item that people would buy for its immediate applications but as an item that people could be convinced to reluctantly buy so that they could learn to use computers and thereby be more effective citizens in the Coming Information Economy.

    The sort of techbro style we now know only arose in the wake of the Dotcom Saga. Seventies' and eighties techbros were more like classic cutthroat businessmen. Some, like Crazy Eddie, even spent time in jail for cutting the wrong throat.

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 11:07 PM

    @aparrish this is a very good thought to have, but it's a very good thought that also has a lot of nuance and complicated layers to it.

    it's still good to try to keep programs usable+customizable even to people with no/little programming knowledge, but also have (emacs-style?) programability easily and visibly available, letting them engage with programming as much or as little as they like.

    programming is annoyingly hard to teach: it's a creative process, like art, and there is no single right way to do it, but also with strict and deterministic rules such that there are still hard and fast ways to be wrong. this can be very frustrating for students if they can't form a base level intuition for it.

    i think i saw this in a TED talk once, where the speaker was like "everyone can draw", and as proof drew a stick figure and said "you can do that too" (the idea being, maybe you can't pump out a mona lisa, but stick figures still count for something, and some people did a lot with just stick figures).
    i think something similar applies to programming: sure, maybe you won't implement a B-tree or a kernel driver, but if you know how to read a cook book, and/or think you could write down a series of instructions for someone else to follow, then you kind of already know how to program.

    programming is also more accessible than ever; we have tons of (mostly free) resources, you can just download a language for free, etc. LLMs *maybe* could do some good by introducing folks to the idea of "making something yourself", but then they also encourage people to get stuck at this level of not really knowing how program (since "you don't need it"), and LLM companies have *every* incentive to lean into the latter.

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 11:31 PM

    @aparrish I agree in some places and disagree elsewhere: it's very much not hard to get started, it is essentially logical legos (and there are languages that are LITERALLY that, and can do quite amazing things despite it,) but when average people hear "program something" they often think "make a game" or "make a hit app" or something of the sort. Most people don't realize how many individual pieces make these things up, and "program something" can be as simple as a CLI app to do something, or a library to use elsewhere, etc. People don't normally notice these things and only know about the big end products they actually use. This, I'd imagine, contributes to the problem of permission: people probably know there's huge teams and billions of dollars and years of time behind what they play and need permission to "waste" all that effort to Do The Thing.

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 11:38 PM

    @aparrish The irony is LLMs will serve to make this more true. It encases things in amber with “well what’s the point of improving things to make it easier to create button that does X when an LLM can mostly do it”

    I already hear software devs saying “why bother writing a new language/framework/tool”

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  • Nov 10, 2026, 11:38 PM

    (to develop/clarify my thoughts here: i am NOT trying to say "actually computers are secretly easy!" i'm trying to say that people successfully engage with difficult, sometimes learner-hostile practices *all the time*, and politics/economics have an outsized influence in maintaining the understanding of computers as being *uniquely* difficult in comparison to other practices)

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  • Nov 11, 2026, 5:18 PM

    @aparrish

    You've got it exactly right, and it's not just adults, and not just the last 20 years. I taught a kids' computer class back in 1992, and even at the age of 7 or 8 half the students had already internalized the whole "computers are complicated and scary and beyond my capabilities" message - while the other half proved it wasn't true. This is back in DOS command-line days, before "user friendly" was really a concept in the PC world.

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