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  • MaddieM4MaddieM4@raphus.social
    Oct 27, 2026, 2:12 AM

    If people contributed to a project with the understanding that it would contain LLM contributions, that's their prerogative, and some people are fine with that. But the reality is that most of these projects are older than that. People invested their effort on a different social contract, and it was changed out from under them. It's like relicensing but more consequential.

    I think that's a much bigger theft than scraping. Scraping doesn't steal our communities.

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Replies

  • MaddieM4MaddieM4@raphus.social
    Oct 27, 2026, 2:16 AM

    If you contrbuted anything to Debian or Bevy or the Linux kernel, you have a more valid claim to "look what they took from you" memes than any Greek statue PFP motherfucker alive.

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  • Space Catitude 🚀TerryHancock@realsocial.life
    Oct 27, 2026, 2:22 AM

    @MaddieM4
    I wonder if the will exists to hard fork these things to no-LLM versions.

    I mean, I just haven't upgraded my desktop, and so none of this has reached me yet. In principle, there could still be a path forward that avoids it. 🤔

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  • Space Catitude 🚀TerryHancock@realsocial.life
    Oct 27, 2026, 2:29 AM

    @gaditb
    I mean, I remember when Debian adopted systemd and there was a sizable revolt and exodus by folks who wanted to stick with init scripts.

    That seems like a relatively minor disagreement compared to the LLM situation.
    @MaddieM4

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  • MaddieM4MaddieM4@raphus.social
    Oct 27, 2026, 2:31 AM

    @TerryHancock @gaditb LLMs are antisocial, so when the fork is for LLM permissiveness, I honestly never care. It safely withers somewhere else. It's when the sloppers are on the upstream side that everyone else gets displaced and the community gets obliterated.

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  • Darth Oslerautolycos@beige.party
    Oct 27, 2026, 2:49 AM

    @MaddieM4 my caveat to that is if there is true informed consent

    I have strong concerns that this is happening

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  • Paco Hopepaco@infosec.exchange
    Oct 27, 2026, 2:56 AM

    @autolycos Consent is cool. What if people do not consent? What if people, properly informed, don’t give their consent?

    AI is all about steamrolling over consent. The mash everything together and then say “oops! We can’t sort out the things we got consent for from the things we didn’t get consent for.” And they just go on using the stuff that nobody consented to.

    The problem is not that they won’t ask for consent. The problem is that they won’t take ‘no’ for an answer.
    @MaddieM4

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  • FoolishOwlfoolishowl@social.coop
    Oct 27, 2026, 3:45 PM

    @MaddieM4 They literally just ran a successful fundraising campaign based on rejecting LLMs.

    It's incredible that *every* FOSS project is transitioning to LLMs, practically simultaneously. How can it be the case that so many different, dissimilar organizations make the same unpopular decision simultaneously? The difficulty of making collective decisions in FOSS is so well known that the old joke about heated arguments about the color of a bike shed gets abbreviated to "bikeshedding".

    I'm wondering if there's active coercion going on behind the scenes.

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  • MaddieM4MaddieM4@raphus.social
    Oct 27, 2026, 3:53 PM

    @foolishowl The boosters are loud and at least partially integrated into all these projects, many of which were founded on individualist technolibertarian values.

    But there's also the aspect that a few key orgs folded like lawn chairs in a way that set a bad example for everybody else. The Linux Kernel, the Debian project, the SFC and FSF. It doesn't feel like that different a phenomenon than KiwiFarms and random stochastic violence hicks feeling emboldened by Trump getting elected. Which magnifies how grossly irresponsible those key orgs were, and probably have been for awhile.

    It all feels a bit like finding out the perfectly fine-looking house you've been living in has been eaten through by termites over the last 8 years. It seems fine until it *very doesn't.*

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  • Wren Reillyakareilly@hachyderm.io
    Oct 28, 2026, 7:58 AM

    @MaddieM4 @foolishowl

    There is a link between gendered violence both online and off, and the current state of several FOSS organisations.

    The very people who would object to LLMs are the same people who got harassed and expelled, often with the threat of pointing Gamergate-style hate mobs their way.

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  • JzeroGuerillaOntologist@social.coop
    Oct 27, 2026, 3:58 PM

    @foolishowl @MaddieM4
    OpenAI's leaked financials showed something like a $5B marketing spend in 2025, iirc. Where do you suppose all that's been going? Definitely not just tv commercials...just sayin'.

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  • Martin Owens :inkscape: :flag_nonbinary:doctormo@floss.social
    Oct 27, 2026, 4:57 PM

    @foolishowl @MaddieM4

    No. It sounds more like a siren call.

    I am VERY surprised there's not a comic yet (👀 @davidrevoy ) showing ship after ship floundering against the rocks of the seductive singing of the merdmaids.

    "Well if I just listen to it a little bit and I can turn around any time I want because I'm so strong of will even the gods couldn't persuade me to crash my ship into some dumb rocks!"

    But of course it doesn't work like that. The seduction changes your ability to think.

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  • David Revoydavidrevoy@framapiaf.org
    Oct 27, 2026, 10:57 PM

    @doctormo @foolishowl @MaddieM4 Hehe for the comic (I'm taking notes). Siren Call? Yes, maybe.

    I kept in contact with maintainers of FLOSS with AI permissive policies, and to sum up: I saw many just drowning under the todos and flirting constantly with burnout. They found in AI a sort of magic wand to alleviate their difficult situation.
    It usually give them illusion the first months, but then their core issues (time management/self-limits) kick back, even with AI. Risking greater burnout...

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  • David Revoydavidrevoy@framapiaf.org
    Oct 27, 2026, 11:02 PM

    @doctormo @foolishowl @MaddieM4 So, if I had a metaphor to draw for a comic, it would be probably moths diving into the flame of a candle faster, because assisted with AI navigation. 😟

    Keep close to any FLOSS maintainers thrilled with AI; it might be one of the first symptom of a future burnout.

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  • kckartoffelcheetah@social.kartoffelcheetah.eu
    Oct 28, 2026, 9:16 AM

    @davidrevoy @doctormo @foolishowl @MaddieM4 I believe usually there are a lot of reasons and ppl do not switch for one reason. I know there are downsides too, but since the question was why they migrate I think these are maybe the reasons:

    1. Bugs are easy to find with LLMs. They are found even by not project members so you get a lot of issues.
    2. Most ppl don't like to fix bugs in these massive quantities. Sometimes fixes are fun, but not always.
    3. Tests are also a good defence against bugs and LLMs can be asked to write tests for things we wouldn't write ourselves because it is boring or repetitive or whatever but they do this "free" (we only have to sell our souls).
    4. And finally the fear of what might happen if they do not adopt LLMs. Then someone else just comes and just forks their project and uses LLM to create a "better" version of it. And then the user base might migrate to the version which has more features + faster bugfixes + more test cases. The problem is that then it is not in your control anymore and then that might as well be a huge AI slop. If we adopt it then at least we already know and understand the project?
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  • Ole-André Rodlierodlie@mastodon.social
    Oct 28, 2026, 9:21 AM

    @davidrevoy @doctormo

    I understand the slop temptation, but taking shortcuts rarely ends up being the best solution over time.

    FOSS maintainers need to embrace that they will never empty their todo queue. My solution to burnout is to care less. That might sound a bit harsh, but that's the only way imho. Yes I have several hundred open todos, does it matter? Not really, I will work on them when I feel like it, or not. Will that annoy some users? Probably, do I care? Nope 🙂

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  • FediThing :progress_pride:FediThing@chinwag.org
    Oct 28, 2026, 7:49 AM

    @foolishowl @MaddieM4

    The vast, vast amount of money poured into GenAI/LLM at the moment would explain a lot of very odd things happening in FOSS right now.

    Perhaps analogous to fossil fuel money in politics opening the door to fascists?

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  • MaddieM4MaddieM4@raphus.social
    Oct 28, 2026, 11:09 AM

    @FediThing @foolishowl the saddest part is what cheap dates so many of us are - in many cases, just some free tokens to get us hooked on the taste. But I'm sure some projects are lobbied more aggressively than that, with some "you want the donation, right? Well you have to integrate our products into your workflow."

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