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  • Jun 27, 2026, 7:09 AM

    @hanscees @datarama the "blame" is very human concept. Thinking about natural laws and not human cultural views, the phrase "consumption of human species are causaly responsible for climatwle change".

    Now... the blame. First of all, I don't really find oligarchs very useful, so blaming theym would mean appreciating their rile of being primary cause of anything, good or bad.

    I just see huge wave, perhaps tsunami-like, of human consmuption, enabled by human knowledge and work. The rich are like surfers of this wave. They do not really cause the wave, the climbed on the top, using tricks outside the rules of economy as percieved by masses, and they enjoy riding the wave. But they are not primary cause of the wave. You can blame them if you like, but it would not change anything.

    The wave is here, and the wave is us, all. And lot us are responsible. I did fly around the world a lot, when younger. I just thought "ok, let's plant more trees". But actuallt, it doesn't matter, if you fly economy class or private jet, in a way. Aggregating demand just means even more global consumption as a result.

    Anyway, the concept of personal carbon footprint is not accepted by those, who could perhaps make difference. It is shame of course. But grounding private jet fleet would not save us. It would be perhaps important symbol, ok. Like putting out a cigarette, when you watch the building on fire...

    The green thinking and left-socialist thinking is not identical. At the same time, while blaming anyone else (oligarchs, immigrants... choose your side!) Is psychologicaly healthier, than blaming yourself... still, blaming captain of Titanic would not be enough to stop it from sinking.

    What we need is correct action, not blaming anybody. The reaction "let's burn private jets and then commit suicide" is little bit theatric. I would like to be able to imagine solution. If the private airplanes are converted to electric... would we still blame them?

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  • Jun 27, 2026, 9:04 AM

    @hanscees @datarama It is definitely not the first time I hear this ideas and arguments. It even may be the direction in which the events will take turn... just like Roman empire en-masse turned to Christianity, after first prosecuting it heavily...

    What I am saying, that things like Tobin tax change don't magically optimize the consumption.

    As for flying, the European tax cuts for airlines are ridiculous, but everybody is silent, because the voters won't vote for more expensive holidays.. but still, the total amount of consumption would not change. The money flows would change, but unless you totally restrict access to certain resource, the resource is going to be consumed.

    Less private jets and more people flying to cheap holiday would be nice.. but the environmental impact is not social impact. Environmental impact It would be the same. And it is extremely unpopular opinion, because, no one really wants less consumption: people on right blame people, who supposedly don't work, so there could be more consumption, people on left blame inequality of consumption, but still want total amount of consumption to rise.

    There is no easy way out. Of course, some solutions are easy: like do not force everyone to use AI, with its ridiculous energy consumption, or so.

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  • Jun 27, 2026, 9:44 AM

    @xChaos @hanscees @datarama "the total amount of consumption would not change"

    If that were true, further subsidising resource consumption would have no effect as well.

    But, in reality, most resources are consumed more when they are cheaper. And the reverse is also true: resources are consumed less when they are more expensive.

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  • Jun 27, 2026, 10:53 AM

    @ahltorp @xChaos @datarama To make co2 go down we need other rules/ laws / treaties. Because of the current power of rich people thats not gonna happen. So we need to take their power / money away and sifon it back to society. When that is being done and their power erodes society ( nation states) can alter the rules / laws / treaties.
    Thats why we need a big fat #tobintax.
    The power should be with nation states, not with oligarchy. Its fundametal for chage toward #ClimateAction

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