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  • kriskris@ghostly.garden
    May 27, 2025, 2:38 PM

    @anildash we really need a browser-supported consent standard similar to Apple's app privacy warnings (educational and mostly non-invasive) — otherwise we'll get more of the malicious compliance style cookie consent banners

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  • Cassandrichdalias@hachyderm.io
    May 27, 2025, 3:43 PM

    @kris @anildash I don't see what a "browser-supported consent standard" would look like. They refused to honor the one we had before (DNT) and instead turned it into a tracking vector itself.

    Any browser-based consent-to-track that doesn't default to no-consent is not consent respecting.

    Any one that defaults to no-consent is going to have the surveillance capitalist shitheads saying "well we're not going to honor it because the user didn't actually select that, it was just a default in the browser" unless or until we can impose sufficient consequences to make them honor it. And indeed it might as well not exist, because nobody's going to say "I want to be tracked". This is just equivalent to what should be done: banning all tracking.

    In any case it all comes down to power to make them stop.

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  • kriskris@ghostly.garden
    May 27, 2025, 7:25 PM

    @dalias right, a standard alone won't fix it... but requiring more consent without one is going to be an enormous mess for experience (cookie consent alone already is)... app experience keeps chipping away at web experience

    other efforts, like google having to sell off chrome are probably more important!

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  • Cassandrichdalias@hachyderm.io
    May 27, 2025, 8:46 PM

    @kris Google selling Chrome off will almost surely make it even more toxic. Any solution that's not establishing an entity without conflicts of interest with user as the stewards is going to be worse than the status quo. We'll end up with OpenAI or Oracle or something owning it.

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  • kriskris@ghostly.garden
    May 28, 2025, 2:06 PM

    @dalias perhaps! but the current state of Google being an ad company resistant to ad-tracking protections in their browser clearly isn't a tenable situation either

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  • Cassandrichdalias@hachyderm.io
    May 28, 2025, 2:36 PM

    @kris Oh absolutely. It's just that anyone who could both afford to buy Chrome and have a financially viable reason (see: fiduciary duty) to *want to buy Chrome* is going to be *even worse than Google*.

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  • kriskris@ghostly.garden
    May 28, 2025, 2:51 PM

    @dalias yeah true, maybe this is a necessary "worse before it gets better" situation that can force more legislation 🤔

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  • My camera shoots fascistsMikal@sfba.social
    May 27, 2025, 4:01 PM

    @anildash

    The analogy with a restaurant worker sniffing you while you are eating dinner and asking if you want to buy more of the same perfume is brilliant. It's creepy and disgusting enough that I think the average person can understand the comparison.

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  • Octavia Con Amore :pink_moon_and_stars: Succubard's LibraryOctaviaConAmore@cutie.city
    May 27, 2025, 4:21 PM

    @anildash CWs here on fedi are a system that centres around consent, but I've noticed neither your posts nor boosts seem to feature them from what I can see :frog_think: You probably advocate for a culture of consent online in good faith, but it would be good to see leadership by example in the daily, accessible ways as well.

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  • Anil Dashanildash@me.dm
    May 28, 2025, 6:01 AM

    @OctaviaConAmore I don't think I've shared anything that my followers have indicated they would prefer to see a warning for? I'm open to it, but also think a lot of the norms around this stuff are fairly specific to different communities that I might not be part of.

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  • Nathannwd@mastodon.online
    May 27, 2025, 11:41 PM

    @anildash My first time reading your website, and this pops up a few seconds in. This behavior ensures that in addition to being the first time, this will also be my last visit to your website.

    Image attached toot
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  • Anil Dashanildash@me.dm
    May 28, 2025, 12:54 AM

    @nwd okay. You can also just close that and it won’t come back.

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  • torsicatorsi@torsi.ca
    May 28, 2025, 2:08 AM

    @anildash It won't come back only if people keep the cookie you set. These are hardly the worst web crimes, but there is certainly some irony considering the topic.

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  • Anil Dashanildash@me.dm
    May 28, 2025, 5:44 AM

    @davidga @nwd well, it was using local storage since those tend to be kept a little better than cookies, but i switched it out for a regular form at the top anyway. it's still dismissible but I figure folks who object to this form are just trying to fuss at this point.

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  • mekka okereke :verified:mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
    May 28, 2025, 1:07 AM

    @nwd @anildash

    Hey Anil. My first time visiting your website too, and a few seconds in, this popped up for me too. I put my email address in and subscribed! Please confirm that you got my subscription request.

    Thanks for writing stuff for free! 👍🏿

    If I do read something that you wrote and I like it, then I will forward it to a friend. Maybe they will like it too.

    Anyway, I hope you are having a great day!

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  • Jemaleddin Colejemal@dmv.community
    May 28, 2025, 1:36 AM

    @mekkaokereke @nwd @anildash I’ve been reading your blog and following you on RSS and social media since the early 2000s, and the first time I saw that pop-up, I hated it. And as somebody who reads you on multiple platforms, I get to see it multiple times. I get the reasoning, but it’s still a dark pattern in comparison to just having a subscription sign-up callout. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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  • Anil Dashanildash@me.dm
    May 28, 2025, 2:09 AM

    @jemal @mekkaokereke @nwd I will probably tweak it to just be a form at the bottom or side of the page, I think. I actually added it because folks told me that they are used to the substack signup form and expect to see something similar. I don’t love that this is the expectation, but I’m also fine with meeting people where they are.

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  • Dinah 🕊🇺🇦metagrrrl@mastodon.social
    May 28, 2025, 2:33 AM

    @anildash What if it appeared in the margin, not as an interruption but an option?

    I'm a fan of your writing, and email subscriptions, but not of mid-stream-of-thought insertions.

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  • Dinah 🕊🇺🇦metagrrrl@mastodon.social
    May 28, 2025, 4:44 AM

    @Wevah @anildash Yes, but it has to be clear that that's not the end of the page. If the section winds up in too satisfying a way, it's easy not to scroll over the subscribe blurb to see that there's more article. That's why I like it on the side. In a bigger view it can be the whole blurb, and on a phone, just a little protruding tab that moves out when touched, maybe with the text wrapping around its space a little to make it intriguing.

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  • Anil Dashanildash@me.dm
    May 28, 2025, 5:47 AM

    @metagrrrl @Wevah I had played with a bunch of those variations, and that's honestly how it ended up where it was (I can see how the designers on other sites ended up with that choice) — it's *really* hard to get right when most of the audience is on mobile. I just punted and put the subscribe form at the top, folks can figure it out, or not. Some of it is all fairly performative from folks who were never going to subscribe (by email or RSS or whatever) anyway, but just want to make a point.

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  • jwzjwz@mastodon.social
    May 28, 2025, 3:45 AM

    @nwd @anildash Count me among the people who reach immediately for the "close" button rather than the "maybe later" button at the first pop-up. Fuck these intrusive dark patterns entirely. You should know better.

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  • Anil Dashanildash@me.dm
    May 28, 2025, 5:40 AM

    @jwz @nwd Okey doke. I pulled the popup out and just made a little thing at the top that can be dismissed. I really had only put the other style of form in because multiple people had literally asked for a substack-style subscription form since that's what they're used to. I think this is really just the collision between my normie business audience and my audience of people who are actual internet people.

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  • Stephensubtl@aus.social
    May 28, 2025, 10:17 PM

    @anildash I appreciate all the content you've produced over the years, also I get the tension between pop ups being really annoying and also provably effective.

    Thanks for removing it.

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  • Jonjdp23@neuromatch.social
    May 28, 2025, 2:17 AM

    FYI @haubles, Anil’s post relates to my point in infosec.exchange/@thenexusofpr

    It’s frustrating though because even though it was largely the 2016-7 Mastodon wave that brought this attitude here, the Mastodon software itself doesn’t really reflect it - even in comparison to forks like Glitch, let alone platforms like GoToSocial. More positively though it’s a great opportunity for progress, and a huge potential strength to build on!

    @anildash

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  • happyborghappyborg@fosstodon.org
    May 28, 2025, 7:45 AM

    @anildash
    You mean companies like Medium?

    What if people like you woke up before telling the rest of us what to do.

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  • jakob.pxijakob@pxi.social
    May 28, 2025, 10:34 AM

    @anildash I think we need to collectively grapple with the fact that the modern internet has been built on ad-tech.

    We failed to treat software as infrastructure and instead submitted to a technological land grabbing exploitation that makes the aztec gold pale in comparison.

    Alas, such is the sweet poison of consumerism, always making you a tiny bit complicit in enjoying its fruits, while offloading all its externalities on to the public, where "someone else's problem" is you.

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