Aug 5, 2026, 4:34 AMmarcus a nonvoter is not a kind of voter
they have no ideals, they have emotional situations
they are not articulating an ideological point of view, they expressing various psychological failure modes like toxic idealism and helpless cynicism
finally, no one hears a voice that does not speak. not voting is not speaking
Aug 5, 2026, 4:39 AM@benroyce Like I said earlier, abstaining from a vote between getting shot & stabbed is a vote.
You also mentioned that voting third party was also helping MAGA.
Last I checked, my ballot was not cast for a MAGA candidate in 2024. To say otherwise is just an insult to me & others who voted in that way.
Like I said, if your candidate has nothing to offer, they have nothing to offer.
That's the candidate's problem, not the voter's.
We have to stop blaming our class for ruling class failures.
Aug 5, 2026, 4:42 AM"Last I checked, my ballot was not cast for a MAGA candidate in 2024"
if you voted 3rd party you helped MAGA
that's not my opinion, it's math
are you familiar with the concept of someone who means well, but causes harm despite their intentions?
we have a shitty FPTP voting system
i don't like it. but we have to work in it to get change. which means taking over the democrats from within. the mamdani template
3rd party just divides the left
please read:
Aug 5, 2026, 4:58 AM@benroyce That actually didn't effect the outcome.
https://www.realclearpolling.com/stories/analysis/how-third-parties-influenced-the-2024-election
Now, I will concede after doing the math here:
https://www.realclearpolling.com/stories/analysis/how-third-parties-influenced-the-2024-election
...if this was popular vote, then maybe, if she grabbed every third party vote, she'd have beaten him by 365,216 votes, but that's not how the system works.
I'm pretty sure if she had gotten all the third party votes by district, she wouldn't have pulled it off.
Aug 5, 2026, 5:02 AMit's not about a particular race, it's about the rationale in general
you vote 3rd party, you divide the left, you help MAGA
just math in our shitty FPTP system
could be by 0.01%, could be by 10%. but in races that are close, and a lot are, voting 3rd party is dangerous
we need ranked choice voting, then you can vote 3rd party, your conscience free and clear, no dreary strategy
until then, the way forward is to take over the democrats from the inside
the mamdani template
Aug 5, 2026, 5:12 AM@benroyce These candidates are supposed to represent us.
They are "dividing the left".
Also, we need to dismiss this notion that Democrats are "the left". When you are campaigning WITH Republicans, you ain't "the left".
When you side with right wing candidates in other countries, you ain't "the left".
When you are actively killing heads of state in other countries to destabilize them, you ain't "the left".
Remember, Harris wanted a war with Iran, too.
Aug 5, 2026, 5:15 AM"Also, we need to dismiss this notion that Democrats are "the left"."
like i said marcus, stop calibrating your thinking to what some shitty centrist corporatist spineless #DNC shitlib thinks
who fucking gives a single shit what the fuck those assholes think
give zero thought to them
*zero*
you just show the fuck up in the primaries
and replace them
that is what happened with #mamdani, and hopefully with #elsayed
stop obsessing over shitlibs! ignore them and replace them!
Aug 5, 2026, 5:24 AM@benroyce I don't coordinate what I think about political leans with centrist.
Because, truth be told, DemSocs are about as centrist as they come in this whole equation.
I'm not sure if you haven't gotten this already, but I'm a revolutionary socialist, a communist, Marxist-Leninist (gasp!).
The petty bourgeois shit doesn't interest me in the slightest because I know there is something better and we cannot get it through voting.
Not at this stage of the game.
This country is too far gone.
Aug 5, 2026, 5:25 AM"I don't coordinate what I think about political leans with centrist."
marcus i just asked you to ignore them and replace them
"Because, truth be told, DemSocs are about as centrist as they come in this whole equation."
da fuq are you on about?
who the fuck do you want in charge?
Aug 5, 2026, 5:37 AM@benroyce Who do I want in charge?!
US!
The working class!
Me and you!
The people in our neighborhoods!
The people in our jobs!
We need to be in charge!
The people who know best what we need in our communities, at our places of work, protecting the lands and seas (ecologically), growing our food!
These are the people I want in charge.
Not someone with millions of dollars in corporate interests!
Aug 5, 2026, 5:38 AMAug 5, 2026, 5:51 AM@benroyce More of the same.
Unless we break this cycle once and for all.
Holding office doesn't mean holding power.
The working class needs power!
Aug 5, 2026, 5:58 AMmarcus a society runs via organization
you need an organizing principle
it's absolutely fine if you don't like one or the other. but you have to articulate an actionable plan, you can't just run on enthusiasm for vague concepts
Aug 5, 2026, 6:11 AM@benroyce Okay. So, if you want me to be very specific, I'm a member of the Party for Socialism and Liberation (gasp, again!).
We have a platform that you can go look up at https://pslweb.org/
But I haven't talked about vague concepts. I've spoken about things that have happened and have worked historically elsewhere that we can learn from to apply to our situation today.
If you want, I can even recommend a couple of books.
But I'll say, I feel I have a better plan than any Dem does.
Aug 5, 2026, 6:14 AMwhat state are you in?
here in new york the DSA can stand in democratic primaries
if so in your state, do that. take over the democrats
but please do not divide the left vote and help MAGA
because of our stupid shitty FPTP voting system (unless you have ranked choice, then go for it)
it's just math marcus. our system fucking sucks
and thus taking over the democrats, the mamdani template, is the only way forward
take all of your beliefs, and just fucking replace the shitlibs
Aug 5, 2026, 6:33 AM@benroyce I live in NC.
And I'd rather not talking about our DSA here...
And here I feel lies another problem with the "vote harder" policy.
That's not a luxury I have here.
We have nearly all Republican representation.
Now, I live in a Blue county, but even then, these folks are corporate owned shills and running anyone left of that is not feasible due to laws rules making it prohibitive for a working class candidate to do that.
So, again, if we ain't got the ballot...
Aug 5, 2026, 6:35 AMthese problems are all valid but it takes people showing the fuck up to fix them. there literally is no other way
Aug 5, 2026, 6:47 AM@benroyce And this is where the organization comes in.
This is where talking to your neighbor comes in.
We can be online keyboard warriors all day debating theory, but eventually we have to leave our computers and smartphones behind and start pounding the pavement having these conversations locally.
Meet up with a reading group.
Go to city council meetings.
I don't know where in NY you are, but if you're in the city, go check out The People's Forum!
I went but they were closed...
Aug 5, 2026, 6:51 AM"We can be online keyboard warriors all day debating theory, but eventually we have to leave our computers and smartphones behind and start pounding the pavement having these conversations locally."
100%
and voting
@benroyce @majorlinux left in the US is centre at best anyway.
Aug 5, 2026, 5:42 AMa global ideological measurement is accurate but it is meaningless for change
like i can observe that the left in saudi arabia is far to the right in denmark but the point is you start somewhere and move in a good direction (or a bad direction)
so yes, the usa is conservative over the whole spectrum compared to say europe
and?
we choose better or worse, then iterate to good
that's all that matters
global absolutist judgments have no actionable value
Aug 5, 2026, 5:58 AMOr, we could collectively as the working class say "Fuck this! Y'all tried! Y'all all suck! We'll take it from here!"
But, I get it, not that many people want to get their hands dirty and actually make that radical change we all want.
Americans want someone to do it for them.
And that's how they want you to act.
Don't be involved.
Don't be engaged.
Don't fight back.
Send someone who says nice things and does absolutely nothing for at least two years...
Aug 5, 2026, 6:00 AMyou're articulating a rationale for choosing a better candidate
you're not articulating a reason to reject representational democracy
Aug 5, 2026, 6:14 AMMy reason for throwing this system away is because it has not made society better for humans or this planet.
This system is propped up by major corporations and the CEOs who run it and they are truly the people who run shit.
I do not believe the working class are actively choosing their representatives in any meaningful way that will affect lasting change for anyone.
I believe that we need to seize power as the working class in order to see that change.
Aug 5, 2026, 6:16 AMand in a system of working class leaders, you're going to have a vote, right?
well you already have it, so just vote with that principle in mind
and sustain. and deliver serious change
Aug 5, 2026, 6:35 AM@benroyce @lindarosesmit Or, collectively as the working class through raising class consciousness and organizing, we can mobilize into a force that says more than any vote could by holding the economy hostage.
Then we can vote.
Because a vote doesn't mean anything if nothing material is going to change.
Then I feel directly involved.
Aug 5, 2026, 6:37 AMif you withhold your vote until you've perfected something, but the time you have this perfect something, you're facing fascists in charge who just laugh and machine gun you
because you didn't vote so they got even worse
there's nothing wrong with working towards this better system *and* voting in the meantime to hold the line. it's not a large commitment. it's just good tactics
Aug 5, 2026, 6:51 AM@benroyce Homie, we got that now, while you're voting.
50 people died in ICE custody this year.
5 people were shot by ICE in the street.
Not to mention how many actual police shootings there have been.
Black children being hanged or mysteriously murdered.
This is during a midterm year.
We're past the point of them shooting and laughing.
When those votes are casts, we'll still be out there dying.
And this is at home, mind you.
There's still Iran, Palestine, Lebanon, Ukraine, DRC...
Aug 5, 2026, 6:52 AMAug 5, 2026, 7:01 AM@benroyce Keep in mind that while, yes, in 2026, Trump is president, there are other years where he wasn't and the numbers still didn't look great.
Police didn't become magically racist and then unracist when a new president is inaugurated.
Palestinians have been massacred since at least the 1940s (maybe earlier).
Ukraine was under Biden.
A lot of these others are because the US (Dem or GOP) loves a good ol' fashioned forever war!
Aug 5, 2026, 7:04 AMmarcus you move in a good direction, or move in a bad direction
if in your dreams the best leader appeared on the american stage, they'd still have difficulties working this shit out and unwinding this shit
and someone would be there criticizing them for it
so you say "fuck that static," aim for better, and you expect results
and then you build on that
and if we don't vote and lose the momentum then yeah
absolutist judgments of "everything sucks all the time" have no meaning
Aug 5, 2026, 7:09 AM@benroyce I move for better without the need of the capitalist system.
I move for better when the people are with me.
None of these capitalists assholes are.
And even if there was a leader, I know that there is a collective of people that I work with, not just a figurehead.
We shouldn't just follow one person. We need to lead, take the reigns and protect and help each other.
That's the way forward.
Elections mean nothing if the people aren't mobilized to fight everyday for something better
Aug 5, 2026, 7:10 AMi have zero argument with you
i think the essential disagreement here now is you are thinking i'm saying "only vote"
no
do all the good things you say
AND vote
that's my message to you
because the vote is just a tiny easy thing that brings all the good work home
@benroyce @majorlinux indeed.
well, I thought you'd like to keep some narrative to turn the nation un-red blue again.
Appreciate the honest and justified words though!