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  • Wladimir PalantWPalant@infosec.exchange
    Sep 26, 2026, 12:14 PM

    We are going to see lots of open source projects deciding on how to deal with fascists within their community. After decades of conditioning people to view tech as a neutral, politics-free zone, very often they will make the wrong decision. You cannot have an open and welcoming community if you allow fascists or discuss that they might actually be “merely” racists or find other excuses not to take a decisive action. See paradox of tolerance.

    If projects are being forked over this matter, I guess all we can do is embracing the fork.

    #KDE

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Replies

  • Brændꜵn Mollɔy :ferris:piecritic@hachyderm.io
    Sep 26, 2026, 12:30 PM

    @WPalant the novel problem though is that entire projects are started and funded by fascists. So is it then ethical to fork something designed and built by and for fascists?

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  • Wladimir PalantWPalant@infosec.exchange
    Sep 26, 2026, 12:42 PM

    @piecritic I’d say that everybody has to decide this for themselves. Personally, I suspect that ideology influences design decisions. So you would be better off taking a step back and thinking about how you would do it. Then building it from scratch.

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  • Wladimir PalantWPalant@infosec.exchange
    Sep 27, 2026, 10:05 AM

    @tblnd @pietervdvn It is messy, with different people having wildly different views of what happened there. I’m afraid that my “insights” aren’t going to help with that.

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  • Thomas B. Rückertbr@society.oftrolls.com
    Sep 26, 2026, 12:37 PM

    @WPalant Yeah, don't go to a Nazi bar. Paradox of tolerance and all that.
    That said, I'm not at all looking forward to the discussions and turmoil that will ensue. 😬

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  • Bin ChickenBinChicken@theblower.au
    Sep 26, 2026, 12:54 PM

    @WPalant That all sounds like a lot of unnecessary hard work, when all you need is:
    (1) Denial.
    (2) Wrapping contentious terms in scare quotes to create ambiguity and plausible deniability (see previous point).
    (3) A way to shoot the messenger and stifle current dissent, and cause enough intimidation to dissuade dissent in future.

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  • Wladimir PalantWPalant@infosec.exchange
    Sep 26, 2026, 1:07 PM

    @Bro666 I think you’ve made up your mind on this topic already. Why are you asking then?

    (Yes, I’ve seen your previous post on the topic where you are massively misrepresenting the issue. No, I’m not going to discuss with you.)

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  • *The* Paul BrownBro666@social.tchncs.de
    Sep 26, 2026, 1:46 PM

    @WPalant

    I see. Is it because your argument has no legs or basis in reality? Surely not. Surely you have first-hand evidence of what you are saying. Come on, back up your claims with data. Let's see it.

    Otherwise, why should anybody give any value to what you say?

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  • abacabadabacabaabacabadabacaba@infosec.exchange
    Sep 26, 2026, 1:50 PM

    @WPalant If a contributor keeps their fascist views outside of the project spaces but openly posts them elsewhere, what should a project do? I think that many projects are fine with that as long as the said contributor doesn't attack other project members, but maybe they shouldn't be.

    In the case of KDE, one user posted a comment in a discussion thread about technical policy, calling out another user for their racist posts elsewhere. I think that a technical discussion thread is not an appropriate venue for discussing other people's conduct, and so some moderator action was warranted.

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  • Wladimir PalantWPalant@infosec.exchange
    Sep 26, 2026, 2:00 PM

    @abacabadabacaba If you don’t know it already you might want to look up the thread that coined the term “Nazi bar.” They always do this stuff elsewhere at first. They will only show their true face in the project once they brought in enough friends or are otherwise in a position of power where they feel that they cannot be kicked out any more. So the stance “we only care about what people do in our spaces” is, quite frankly, a naive one. Projects should be paying close attention when somebody is called out for things they do elsewhere. Shooting the messenger is an extremely wrong approach, no matter the circumstances, and I hope that KDE still comes around to understand this.

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  • Wladimir PalantWPalant@infosec.exchange
    Sep 26, 2026, 9:44 PM

    @sackofbones I wasn’t suggesting to embrace just any fork – only those created because the main project “tolerates” fascists. And definitely not the ones created by people ousted from the main project because… well, reasons.

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