I was recently asked advice from a non-developer on handling developers they suspect are fobbing them off, saying “sorry this can't be done”. I’ll tell you what I told them:
Lead with “I strongly suspect this can’t be done but...”
The developer will now do everything in their power to prove you wrong. You are welcome.
Feb 10, 2023, 10:54 AM@heydon Depends on the task;) The developer might also agree with you and close as WONTFIX.
@tml No kidding! This is specifically for dealing with developers who already try to get out of everything.
@heydon
I'm on the opposite side, as a developer saying "this can't be done unless we also do that", and being told that we don't have time for that, just do this.
"but..."
Feb 10, 2023, 12:03 PM@heydon prompt injection attack for people
Feb 10, 2023, 3:35 PM@heydon i've had quite a few episodes like that. Being half decent at programming and having spent some time with developers I make it a point not to boast. But when whole teams thought it would be ok to bullshit me, I led off with a smile and the opening "well, actually ..." 🙂
Dev: "This could be done, but we'd have to do <X really hacky thing> to accomplish this".
Manager: "Ok let's do it."
@heydon
Very true.
Was asked one morning by a sales guy if something could be done. Told him he could have it that afternoon, and wrote/tested it.
After showing him he told me the postsales dev team had said it couldn't be done but give them six months and they'd try.
@Sdowney @heydon
Oh yes indeed. In late 70s/early 80s I worked in presales and my manager kept telling me off for typing my own reports; I was supposed to write them by hand and our secretary would type it.
I'd been typing since I was a teenager and couldn't read my own writing most of the time. Eventually he relented.
@arne_mertz @heydon
Computer mainframe manufacturers - in this case Sperry Univac - had development teams to do the required work post-purchase. There basically weren't the plethora of software companies there were/are subsequently so alongside the hardware you'd also sell the customer-specific work.
@heydon Any way to say "this sound like an interesting challenge" without actually saying it 😅.
@heydon I get this kind of approach at work (used to be webdev, school science stuff these days). I quite enjoy a "I realise we probably can't, but...", and they usually fall into four categories:
Yes, of course, quite easy.
Doable in principle, but way outside our time/budget/legality
Not theoretically impossible as far as I know, but an automatic Nobel Prize if I can.
Breaks several laws of physics at least.
![xkcd cartoon 1425:
[Ponytail sitting at a computer with Cueball standing behind her.]
Cueball: When a user takes a photo, the app should check whether they're in a national park...
Ponytail: Sure, easy GIS lookup. Gimme a few hours.
Cueball: ...and check whether the photo is of a bird.
Ponytail: I'll need a research team and five years.
[Caption below the panel:]
In CS, it can be hard to explain the difference between the easy and the virtually impossible.](https://files.mastodon.social/media_attachments/files/109/841/500/016/764/254/original/4f20c206036be43a.png)
Feb 10, 2023, 5:04 PM@heydon Everything can be done, the only thing to discuss is a detailed discussion on cost/effort.
Is it really impossible or is it just your knee jerk internal flinching at the face value effort this would be…?
@heydon genius
One of my favorite stories from Feynman's memoirs is when his mail was going through military censors and they were censoring things they shouldn't have.
When challenged, the head of the censors explained the censors weren't used to the new rules for civilians and naturally made some mistakes, saying "don't you think I have good will?"
"I think you have perfectly good will. I don't think you have the *power.*"
"OH, WE'LL SEE ABOUT THAT!"
The problem was immediately fixed. 🤣
@heydon
A classical manipulation technique. Nothing related to developers. You question someones abilities to do a certain thing and they often want to prove you wrong. Same as saying "I am assuming you cannot afford to buy X" and they'll buy X whether they can afford it or not. It works, but if you constantly go an question someones abilities that will damage the presonal relationship you have with this person in the long run.
@uncanny_static Thank you for explaining to me that manipulation doesn't only work on developers or is a concept perculiar to web development ✌️
@heydon
You're welcome. 😘
@heydon Hello writers -- this is also a strategy when your SMEs don't respond. WRITE IT WRONG. Then send it for review. They'll be so invested in showing how you're wrong that you'll get all the info you needed in the first place.
@heydon you are evil, such tricks should not be known