Are you as tired as I am of seeing scroll containers everywhere? That they make all interfaces wobbly and give a feeling of poor construction? Like you can’t rely on things if they are not stable and move that easily for no good reason
@nikitonsky I had this theory that this might be partly because of: https://unsung.aresluna.org/testing-tip-always-show-scrollbars/
@mwichary I mean, it let it slip for sure, but the desire to use scroll where no scroll is needed in the first place, where does it come from?
Or was there some change for default views where all of them suddenly became rubber-bandy? If yes, then I think this is the wrong default. Very few things should be rubber-bandy. It was exciting for the first 500 times but now I am kinda... tired of it?
@nikitonsky Ah yes, Chrome recently rubberbanded all the views. (They have to still be scrollable, but it exacerbates this for sure.) I don’t know enough about frameworks to answer the first question.
@nikitonsky One theory for the former is height: 100% without box-sizing: border-box. I’m sure there are many more ways to get there.
@mwichary I am just surprised that it happened in native views and the web both.
Speaking of web :)
@nikitonsky Argh, the horizontal wiggle room! I wonder if we can prevent that. @mwichary
@diondiondion @nikitonsky Here’s another one for ya!
@nikitonsky Don’t touch your loose tooth man. You’ll make it worse
@mwichary @nikitonsky good tip, thanks! just turned that setting on
@mwichary @nikitonsky As someone who has always run with scroll bars set to always show and who has also developed SwiftUI Mac apps, I can tell you that making a Mac window that exactly fits the contents on one or more SwiftUI views *without* showing a scroll bar with a tiny bit of scrollable area is apparently one of the hardest problems in computer science. Bugs galore, changing in each minor macOS release, even!
@siracusa @nikitonsky I know even on the web there are some weird oscillation problems, as you set the dimensions of the view, but you don’t know the size of a potential scrollbar that will subtract from the said dimensions – but only *sometimes*. Curious how it compares.
(Also Safari in particular is not very good at respecting overflow: hidden/clip when children stick out, so you can’t easily fire-and-forget that.)
@mwichary @nikitonsky I know what you’re talking about on the web (and there are modern workarounds for those), but the SwiftUI-in-NSHostingView-in-NSWindow problems have just been mind-boggling and ever-changing. Even macOS 27 hasn’t fixed them all!
@siracusa @nikitonsky Oof! Thanks for sharing.
@siracusa @mwichary @nikitonsky As a former tester who always kept scroll bars on, I can confirm it makes for a target-rich environment. One of my devs started referring to them as my "troll bars" bugs. I'm still proud of that.
@siracusa @mwichary @nikitonsky Clearly still some work to do on scroll bars in Golden Gate. My content feels so highlighted.
@nikitonsky Responsive design is hard.
Sep 24, 2026, 3:51 PM@nikitonsky that makes me wanna scream. just half an em less in the font would fix that shit. it’s like these people will do anything in javascript to avoid learning the basics of CSS