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  • dra!_kulixdrakulix@dreampi.es
    Sep 22, 2026, 9:43 AM

    I swear FOSS discourse has evolved into the same reactionary infighting seen in leftist spaces. It is wild to me, how a bunch of people scream “nazi bar”, when a certain guest speaker in the KDE space brings up Omarchy as a bad example and publicly denounces DDH.

    And then extending on that thought with “I knew he wasn’t trustworthy, when he mentioned having worked for Google and Apple” (not a direct quote) after also stating that they are working for notable open source projects. The notion, that somebody needs to have been a FOSS-evangelist since their very birth is absolutely ridiculous.

    Sorry to be age-ist about this, but some of you clearly never have tried to get their Wifi-Stick working with ndiswrapper and it shows. Almost nobody knew what Linux was 25 years ago. There was no money in open-source, big tech wasn’t as big as today and actually driving innovation. *I* and many people I knew, wanted to work at Apple or Google when I was a teenager. And that wasn’t something you had to be morally defensive about.

    Are we really blaming people for trying to make a living?

    And of course all of this has a heavy overlay with the most insufferable parts of the Anti-AI crowd, but I don’t have it in me to go there today.

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Replies

  • ☃️karolherbst☃️karolherbst@chaos.social
    Sep 22, 2026, 10:13 AM

    @drakulix the saddest part it that it's just impossible to talk with them about this, because of course they are not brigading or anything. They are fighting fascism! (on the KDE bug tracker). So it's eternally justified for them to be this insufferable. And if you criticize them you are actually also a Nazi.

    Must be nice having no other worries and seeing the world like this...

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  • Emmanuele Bassiebassi@mastodon.social
    Sep 22, 2026, 11:10 AM

    @karolherbst the sad part is that they do have other worries, but hyperfocusing on this one allows them a certain degree of control and certainty, which makes it easier to go all in, and think they have achieved something. Of course, there are LARPers and grifters all around; for those, endlessly critiquing power is a much better endeavour than actually doing something.

    @drakulix

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  • Val Packett 🧉valpackett@treehouse.systems
    Sep 22, 2026, 10:04 PM

    @ebassi @karolherbst @drakulix the worst feeling is when people who *have* actually done good things, including technical achievements etc., and you thought were fighting the same fight, get a bit too involved in these harassment mob ass tactics and maximally ultra extreme positions and just lash out at the concept of nuance itself even

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  • ☃️karolherbst☃️karolherbst@chaos.social
    Sep 22, 2026, 10:24 PM

    @ebassi @valpackett from my experience the factor that contributes the most to burn out is entirely the social factor of FOSS. And then with a big gap comes corpo nonsense. And here I don't even mean brigading or in-fighting in particular. Just the concept of how "FOSS is supposed to work socially" is a big source of burn-out and I wished people would be more empathic and respectful towards maintainers paying with their mental health...

    @drakulix

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  • Val Packett 🧉valpackett@treehouse.systems
    Sep 22, 2026, 10:47 PM

    @karolherbst @ebassi @drakulix yeeeaaaa and this comes back to the rage against the kde issue cooldown which is just, ugh, psychic damage all around

    like I do in theory agree that there shouldn't be elitist exclusion vibes and so on but this?? that's so not it dawg?? do you want developers to be available for extremely heated public discussion / to be bullied 24/7?? and you really expect them to not just withdraw their entire labor force then?!

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  • SuperDicqSuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
    Sep 22, 2026, 10:42 AM

    @drakulix@social.dreampi.es Making money is not the problem, but being an active participant in infecting the free software world with proprietary slopware is a problem. And that's exactly what DHH does.

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  • jane400 - 628.4 fanjane@smolhaj.social
    Sep 22, 2026, 10:57 AM

    @drakulix I'm not sure I completly agree, only for the most part. Yeah, choosing a career in Big Tech was a lot less morally complicated or maybe we all just decided to never look at IBMs history. I have defintivly decided to let all of the fediverse rage pass and wait what the actual result in the KDE sphere will be.

    Tbh I find the current LLM discourse in programming a bit weird sometimes. Computer programming isn't done in a vacuum even if we act like it. Looking at wider society really makes me feel we have lost and failed to educate our peers, this infighting could have been a lot less harsh, I rather see burning datacenters than being pricks at volunteers. It's also really depressing how people fall for those chatbots like they're human beings because we couldn't stop measuring intelligence or at least not measuring it in how many fancy words one uses or how good someone is at speaking.

    Edit: yeah okay, as usual other people find the perfect wording for my opinion: mastodon.social/@ebassi/117314

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  • dra!_kulixdrakulix@dreampi.es
    Sep 22, 2026, 2:05 PM

    @jane Of course. By no means am I advocating for keeping politics out of code and I am sure you didn't imply that.

    And I also believe the world would be better off, if LLM technology just disappeared from one day to the next. But I fail to see how some people argue that the talk in question was pro-AI, when the author clearly voiced their frustration with it and especially frontier models and carefully hinted at the possibility of people running local modals. There is nuance here. (I guess I am going there after all.)

    It is in my opinion important to realize, that 99% of issue with the current state of AI is deliberately caused by these companies. The chatbot shizophrenia, devaluing art, enviromental issues, memory crisis, etc - all for money. Educating our peers on these things is obviously important, but screaming on the KDE bugtracker is an attempt of public shaming, which scientifically proven is more likely to cause the opposite reaction rather than what they presumably want to achieve.

    In turn also means the world is not going to end, if somebody tags their pet photos with a local model. Of course there are ethical questions attached to that, which are worthwhile to have a nuanced discussion about, but the people I am criticizing here seems to have no interest in that. (And far too many suddenly turn in copyright apologists of all things.)

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  • dra!_kulixdrakulix@dreampi.es
    Sep 22, 2026, 3:16 PM

    @dngrs @jane Yeah, this is an example of a comment I do not expect to foster a healthy discussion.

    What I was saying is, that somebody unaware or only superficially aware of the ethical problems is not necessarily your enemy and should not be shot on first sight. The issue is that this data was collected (involentarily in many cases) in the first place and that the insane amount of power training these billion parameter models was and continues to be spent given our numerous current crises.

    Many people are fed up with chatbots being stuffed in their faces everywhere. A somewhat technical person automating tagging their documents with Paperless-AI is not meaningfully contributing to this mess by adding a single download to the millions of downloads of some of the top models on huggingface.

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  • etaeta@eta.st
    Sep 22, 2026, 12:01 PM

    @drakulix @erincandescent "has evolved into"? I think FOSS has always been like this; there's always been a subset of very loud users who will chastise you if you don't make your life as difficult as possible in service of the religious aim of free software (and their own personal interpretation of it)

    in the past it was just having a go at people who used macbooks instead of linux laptops (or any Apple product really), or something like that. heck, remember the whole systemd holy wars

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  • ellyelly@donotsta.re
    Sep 22, 2026, 1:38 PM
    @drakulix I remember when USB cameras didn't even work on Linux and people take UVC for granted these days :neocat_floof_explode:
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  • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
    Sep 22, 2026, 4:32 PM
    @elly @drakulix Reminds me of when I bought a USB microphone about a year ago and was still in the "which one will work?" mode enough that I bought one with Linux in the specs.
    Mostly because I'm still somewhat fearful of USB audio drivers or even multi-soundcard setups, but well my motherboard got awful audio so it had to be USB.
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  • ellyelly@donotsta.re
    Sep 22, 2026, 5:36 PM
    @lanodan @drakulix when I'm buying hardware I just go with cheapest, most-reasonable option and if it doesn't work in Linux... I'll just make it work :akko_shrug:
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  • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
    Sep 22, 2026, 5:46 PM
    @elly @drakulix Wish that would be an option for me, kind of hate dealing with things related to hardware level, and then contributing to the linux kernel or keeping a 3rd-party patch/module seems like an even bigger pain (kind of thing that in the past few years made me ponder about switching at least few machines to other systems).

    But well thanks to sloppification, I guess I might end up doing that for non-Linux systems.
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  • Knievel @ Home :neocat_floof_cute:knievelcat@amazonawaws.com
    Sep 22, 2026, 2:35 PM
    @drakulix I think a lot of people are just scared and confused about the state of the world. I definitely am. There's a lot of misinformation and propaganda going around about AI and it's hard to know what is real anymore. But that's no excuse to be an asshole. The world is shitty for everyone. Be kind.
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  • zivir'karihsza@social.tudbut.de
    Sep 22, 2026, 2:36 PM

    @drakulix “leftist infighting” “insufferable parts of the anti-AI crowd” yea i smell nuancetrolling all over your post

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  • Elizabeth :therian: :cascadia: 🏳️‍⚧️Elizafox@treehouse.systems
    Sep 22, 2026, 4:01 PM

    @hsza @drakulix no I would say this is accurate and I agree with it

    There are people being horribly insufferable about all of this in bad ways. They make life a living Hell for the rest of us who just want a fucking working desktop and don’t wanna spend the next 50 years of our finite existence arguing about stupid shit

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  • Elizabeth :therian: :cascadia: 🏳️‍⚧️Elizafox@treehouse.systems
    Sep 22, 2026, 4:02 PM

    @hsza @drakulix people look down on me for having ever worked at Microsoft. People look down on others for what editor they use (yes that still actually happens). I’ve seen friendships end over OS choice. It’s ridiculous! It’s childish! And anti-AI advocacy is one thing but shitting on people for “not doing enough” is bullshit. It really needs to fucking stop.

    And an enormous part of this problem is people like you assuming bad faith from others. Maybe just don’t do that.

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  • Addisonaddison@nothing-ever.works
    Sep 22, 2026, 4:56 PM

    @drakulix@dreampi.es not sure it's ageism if you're literally pointing out that people lack experience/context/sense. I definitely know some younger folks who are successfully not engaging with this self-defeating infighting, too. Purity testing is not going to help us oust the weird fascist little guys.

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