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  • Jun 30, 2026, 12:51 PM

    @simontatham This casual churn in tooling erodes trust in the system the tool exists in, not just in the tool itself. We need to be able to depend on our tools, to be able to reason about them, to know what their limitations are, and how they fail. We have a mental model of them and as long as changes are gradual and evolutionary it's relatively easy to adapt and to maintain trust.

    We're getting to the point that a generation or two of developers have thoroughly discarded notions of trust and consent. They are frustrated with caring about other people. Or maybe it wasn't that big of an issue because systems were smaller and balkanized - uses weren't as diverse and there was a tighter community that meant systems didn't need to change often and that changes served the majority of users.

    What's darkly amusing is that I have substantially less trouble recovering abandoned 50-year-old Fortran code than I do 6-month-old Python. For all its many limitations and flaws, Fortran takes backward compatibility very seriously, deprecating misfeatures over decades yet still managing to add major features. Python is a disposible language for disposable programs and disposable programmers.

    Who does disruption serve? In the past 15-20 years my answer has generally been "not me". Not out of being hidebound or change averse but because my needs are fairly stable. Most of the problems being solved are problems I don't face. So much seems like disruption is for disruption's sake not out of any actual (community) need. Stable means old and old is bad and anyone who argues can be safely ignored.

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  • Jun 30, 2026, 1:05 PM

    @dtl @simontatham I don't know how else to express it. My expectation for a Python project is that it will need to be rewritten every 2-3 years simply because the development infrastructure has disintegrated . The underlying source code might need only minor modifications but the tools for doing all the software engineering tasks needed to maintain and package the code will have completely changed making the project unmaintainable.

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  • Jun 30, 2026, 1:30 PM

    @arclight That is basically my feeling with Python and I've also been bitten by TypeScript.
    We had a micro-CT to virtual unfolding of letters pipeline written by two outstanding students, but they left the project (graduated).
    I can't run the code any more. I've been unable to even get back to working version with old libraries.

    Anyone coming into the project now would basically have to start again from scratch. Good thing the algorithms are documented.

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  • Jun 30, 2026, 5:08 PM

    @arclight @dtl @simontatham I've got a python 2.7/gtk2 telemetry monitor that still runs nearly perfectly, but that's because those both stopped development within a year of my writing it.

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