have you -seen- the world that they're experiencing now?
shit, the modern mobile OSs don't even want to acknowledge that filesystems exist in the UI. how the shit is a kid supposed to learn the "correct" way to do things in this situation?
@munin That's where interest in finding out, IT lessons at school, reading and tinkering come into play. But if a user isn't interested in how the tool.they're using work, they will not attempt to learn.
buddy, you can only have an interest in finding out if the resources are -there to tell you that there's something to find out-
you're blaming users for not knowing about something they're deliberately told doesn't exist.
that's fucked up.
@munin You can (still) run busybox on your phoneOS. You can hack a RasPi at school. The pointers are there. The resources are there. But perhaps I'm missing something and I didn't get the point you were making?
yes, the part where the comment you responded to saying that -new users- who -do not have experience- have all of those concepts deliberately the fuck hidden from them by the UI they are given, such that - even if they are curious - they are actively lied to -by the research resources- on a regular basis, and thus have no opportunity for success -with- their curiosity.
The workflow you are describing is -not reasonable- for your average 10 year old in this year, and shows that you are engaging in the though process I described in the last paragraph of the -prior- post: https://infosec.exchange/@munin/116771824701213509
Just because something is technically possible for an informed user does not mean that a user who has been -constrained from learning- will even know that such a thing exists.
@munin Proprietary corps don't give a shit. Uneducated users are their lifeblood. They'll sell you the manual, and the course, and send marketing to cover for you (if it's not their fault).
and this cynical attitude disclaiming ability to make changes reinforces those patterns; do better.
@munin Just representing the truth honestly. People don't get angry enough. Sometimes it's the right choice - particularly, when dealing with outright narcissism.
@munin Yes.
Working helpdesk support with the intent of trying to find solutions that work well both for the user and the company really opens your eyes to this shit.
Sometimes users are lazy, yes, but never stupid. Pretty much anything anything people chalk up to stupidity is users following patterns they've often been forced into for years.
I will say there are sometimes no-win situations, where in order to act correctly a user would need to have knowledge that they just simply have absolutely no incentive to learn. But that's usually the company's fault.
@munin this is the exact result of doing what you ask in the first post of this chain.
There are users that cannot and users that will not. Some portion of each of these groups will never succeed regardless of how much help, guidance and knowledge they are given. If you pander to this crowd you rob everyone else of a working, discoverable system.