Nov 4, 2026, 10:09 PM@r @madjohnroberts @mcc to be blunt, sports is a beachhead for segregation, surrounded by very superstitious people who have been sold a bill of goods that the segregation is necessary for equity
- Nov 4, 2026, 10:09 PM
Replies
Nov 4, 2026, 10:15 PM@rakslice @madjohnroberts @mcc right, i was interested in _how_ you would come to have superstition like that (and why it feels *so* foreign to me)
the entire "culture of physical activity" quoted in the other thread branch is not really something i've ever been exposed to
- Nov 4, 2026, 10:20 PM
@rakslice @madjohnroberts @mcc or, more precisely, i've always been exposed to a *different* one
the culture _I_ got was that organized sports (*well* into the TV-including-cable era) was entirely about obscure meta-game, non-organized grass-touching sports didn't matter because i didn't have friends, and e-sports were not acknowledged by anybody. but this isolation meant that an individualistic "do whatever you want" self-determination wasn't scary at all (see other thread branch again)
this clearly doesn't appear to be what other people got though, and the differences are probably important for adjusting the framing
mjrmadjohnroberts@mastodon.socialNov 4, 2026, 10:47 PM@r I don't think it's complicated, people (in general) don't think about it very deeply. The bills say they "restore fairness in school sports" oh that sounds good, everyone wants a fair chance! I think that's as deep as most people get, and proponents can push trans scarecrows that simply don't exist since most people don't know a trans kid and don't empathize with what they don't know. And considering second order effects takes practice/training.
@rakslice @mcc
Nov 4, 2026, 10:49 PM@madjohnroberts @r @rakslice it hurts because i want to like direct democracy but all we ever seem to get out of initiative systems is these bills with feel-good toplines that do something horrific if you actually read all the way to the end
- Nov 4, 2026, 11:12 PM
@mcc @madjohnroberts @rakslice yeah i'm probably overthinking it, i'm just trying to figure out _how_ i am
i know about the US's slogan-based elections, but i still don't expect "fairness" to emotionally resonate so strongly (to me it's *far* weaker than a slogan like making america great again)
- mjrmadjohnroberts@mastodon.socialNov 4, 2026, 11:35 PM
@r @mcc @rakslice I agree it's not compelling. Clarifying what I said above, the surface argument is for "fairness" and the compelling counter arguments ("we shouldn't hate trans folk" aside) point out logical consequences of these bills. Deducing consequences is the step I think people don't do, so "fairness" wins. At some level, this is an outreach problem and transphobes do more of it. It's a problem when people hear of these bills for the first time when they open their ballot
- Nov 4, 2026, 11:43 PM
@madjohnroberts @r @rakslice This is why I think the Washington initiative is so important: It's a clear overreach and the phobes left themselves exposed
- Nov 4, 2026, 11:46 PM
@mcc @madjohnroberts @rakslice hmm yeah, "consequences" traditionally never works in US elections, but this overreach *might* actually be different
Fluffy Kitty Catfluffykittycat@furry.engineerNov 4, 2026, 11:47 PM@mcc @madjohnroberts @r @rakslice the fact that that initiative is so hideously creepy that I've been calling initiative Epstein is something we need to lean hard on.
- Nov 4, 2026, 11:48 PM
@fluffykittycat @mcc @madjohnroberts @rakslice dangerous and risky, but i think *some* people should definitely be doing that (in parallel with less-culture-war-y counter messaging)
- Fluffy Kitty Catfluffykittycat@furry.engineerNov 5, 2026, 12:09 AM
@r @mcc @madjohnroberts @rakslice I mean I don't get how looking at little girl's genitals it's supposed to be interpreted in any other way than invasive and creepy. Like this is the actual result of transphobia taken to its logical conclusion that it's fucking horrifying. Transphobes should be made to answer for this at every turn. If they propose some transphobic law then we should throw this initiative in their face. Ask them if this is what they want? Because this is what we get when we humor them even slightly. It's an indefensible position and we need to hammer it home and every opportunity this is what they will do to your children given the opportunity, it's not mere rhetoric we have hard proof now
- Nov 5, 2026, 12:29 AM
@fluffykittycat @mcc @madjohnroberts @rakslice the problem i am seeing is that "health care provider" is able to trigger a *different* set of counteracting brainworms
"logical conclusions" is already a somewhat weak move, so I don't see this rhetoric as a guaranteed slam dunk
Xerz 💗xerz@masfloss.netNov 5, 2026, 12:51 AM@r @rakslice @madjohnroberts @mcc because you've grown to learn men are tough and big and aggressive and muscular and violent
women are soft and gentle and fragile and not very well fit
and sports are the celebration of ability, of maximized genes, which in this mindset, men are inherently endowed with
it's pretty much perfect soil for transphobia to grow from
NetzblockiererNetzblockierer@tech.lgbtNov 5, 2026, 8:45 AM@rakslice @r @madjohnroberts @mcc yeah, cuz remember:
- Binary Gender Segregation in Sports only exists so men don't have to loose face and run at risk of loosing against a woman.
It really is that simple.
- Any sport that actually cares about fairness uses actual metrics of advantage like weight, height, age and espechally qualifying skill levels as well as certifications to make it fair.
- That's why you won't see cars race against motorcycles with simultaneous starts or a boxing match of a 18yo featherweight against a 50yo super-heavyweight: OFC a Hayabusa will outrun a Lamborghini and the latter one has the risk that someone gets seriously hospitalized by accident.