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  • NetBSD Foundation 🚩netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org
    Oct 18, 2026, 10:29 PM

    @zzt Hey, just to clear this situation up:

    We received the donation out of the blue with no knowledge of who these people are. We don't have any communication with them and don't know what (if anything) they want from us. Maybe they just want more traffic to their site, which is mostly about software.

    Our rule is donations cannot come with restrictions/requirements/influence other than we add a logo to our site. They requested this. At the moment we have to follow our own bureaucratic rules.

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Replies

  • [object Object]zzt@mas.to
    Oct 18, 2026, 11:00 PM

    @netbsd this clears up a lot, thank you

    netbsd’s hands are tied, by their own bureaucratic rules, into driving traffic to a fascist organization they didn’t vet

    FUTO doesn’t really make a secret of who they are. they have consistently platformed fascists and bigots on their YouTube channel. their founder is affiliated with Curtis Yarvin, a name that’s infamous enough in 2026 that he needs no introduction. would a donation from Urbit prompt you to add their logo to your site? how about Truth Social? maybe Rumble, LBRY, or any of the other far-right disinformation networks that FUTO promotes?

    maybe you think this is irrelevant. ok. if Omarchy offered a donation with “no strings attached”, given the context around DHH’s goals to make the hacker community hostile towards marginalized people and friendly to slop, do your bureaucratic rules state you must accept the donation and display their logo on your site?

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  • [object Object]zzt@mas.to
    Oct 18, 2026, 11:05 PM

    @netbsd I’m not trying to do purity culture, whatever the fuck that is, or some gotcha shit with these questions

    I’d like to know how your bureaucratic rules around donations respond to the precise type of threat that has made many other projects very hostile places for marginalized contributors, as someone who has had to leave several projects after bad actors with money made them hostile

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  • niawashbear@mastodon.sdf.org
    Oct 18, 2026, 11:11 PM

    @zzt @netbsd gotcha question: would you rather we refuse the money or give it to our marginalized contributors

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  • [object Object]zzt@mas.to
    Oct 18, 2026, 11:12 PM

    @washbear @netbsd do you think I’m coming from a theoretical place when I tell you accepting the money ends poorly

    I’m glad this is funny to you

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  • NetBSD Foundation 🚩netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org
    Oct 18, 2026, 11:13 PM

    @zzt legitimately we haven't had to have this discussion before because nothing like this has ever happened before to us. such is life in these past few years.

    someone's brought it to our board of directors now so a decision has to be made one way or another, just not over mastodon.

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  • NetBSD Foundation 🚩netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org
    Oct 18, 2026, 11:21 PM

    @MonKaiju @zzt generally, board doesn't make public statements like that. however, since everything is exceptional at the moment, and it's already being talked about, yeah there will probably be a statement. stay tuned.

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  • [object Object]zzt@mas.to
    Oct 18, 2026, 11:15 PM

    @netbsd sounds good to me. I am, without sarcasm, hoping for the best

    because there’s more or less nothing left for us

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  • Deb Nam-Kranednkboston@apobangpo.space
    Oct 19, 2026, 12:45 AM

    @netbsd I'm confused. You have never conceived of the possibility that someone might give you money that you wouldn't want to take?

    I'm the head of a non-profit. We're always thinking about how to ask for money because we need it. But if someone who is fascist- or AI-adjacent made a donation, I would refuse it--especially if it meant I'd have to put their logo on our site. We don’t need money *that* badly.

    @zzt

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  • Deb Nam-Kranednkboston@apobangpo.space
    Oct 19, 2026, 12:54 AM

    @jonesmurphy And it outrages me. The non-profit is a climate organization, and I haven't seen one application or use case that justifies the pollution and hoarding of resources.

    But there's a difference between an organization that is using AI-templates 🙄 and one that is bs'ing about how data center buildouts are going to help the cause because AI will figure out how to solve the problem. I wouldn't take a cent from the latter.

    @netbsd @zzt

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  • TockTock@corteximplant.com
    Oct 19, 2026, 10:25 AM

    @dnkboston @jonesmurphy @netbsd @zzt The best donor policy in my opinion seems to be cruel to be kind: donating gets you nothing. (Tax exemption is nice as it makes donating easier, but not entirely necessary.)

    No perks, no props, no link back, acknowledgement, or endorsement. No recognition. And no access to developers or administration any more than any other user can expect.

    Donating should be exactly that: money offered with zero conditions to benefit a non-profit group working toward a desired goal. That is it.

    Not "Effective Altruism". Just garden variety altruism. Do someone a good deed with zero expectation it will be paid back or to benefit yourself. Not because you get seen giving back and recognized. But to do it because you can.

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  • Mx. Chara Aznable of Pnictogenmxchara@cyberpunk.lol
    Oct 19, 2026, 12:56 AM

    @dnkboston @netbsd @zzt I would like to add: a bad-faith organization is always going to treat their "donation" as if they're buying something. The money is bait; once taken, the fashy organization will use that inroad, perhaps offering even more money but only in exchange for concessions (like, say, pressing for acceptance of LLM garbage.)

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  • [object Object]zzt@mas.to
    Oct 19, 2026, 1:04 AM

    @mxchara @dnkboston @netbsd they’re very good at veiling their demands, too

    if you don’t comply, they’ll of course take their money elsewhere. but that represents a gigantic chunk of your donor base.

    and naturally they’ve been given leniency in community spaces as they push everyone else out. after all, they contributed so much (money, almost never labor)

    and now they have a favor to ask! and they tell you you’ll be doing what the community wants anyway (because they’ve bought the ability to shout down anyone who dissents), so what’s the problem?

    and if you don’t do it, all they’ll do is leave. them and their money. and they might talk shit to your other donors on the way out too. they’ll be as loud and damaging as they can be, actually.

    and if you’re familiar with the history of organized crime: yes, this is how the mafia used to turn personal favors into racketeering. fascists are criminals, and they use criminal tactics.

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  • Deb Nam-Kranednkboston@apobangpo.space
    Oct 19, 2026, 1:08 AM

    @zzt You've done a pretty good job describing how prohibitive it can be for a small start up to get a big company as a customer. Good luck not getting turned into a dependent subsidiary.

    @mxchara @netbsd

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  • NewsHundNewsHund@mastodon.social
    Oct 19, 2026, 1:55 AM

    @netbsd @zzt This strikes me as a fair and honest answer, and I’ll look forward to hearing the results.

    EDIT: The rest of this thread is making me care less about hearing the results.

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  • Jørnjornane@bsd.cafe
    Oct 18, 2026, 11:33 PM

    @zzt @netbsd The rules are pretty clear I’d say.

    netbsd.org/donations/

    If you donate above a certain amount, you can request your logo and a link be included on the site for that year.

    That is not an endorsement by the NetBSD project, and I don’t think anyone would assume that.

    This donation policy has been pretty common, I don’t think I’ve heard about bad faith donating before this year. So I fully support them taking the time to think this through and not take any hasty decisions.

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  • David Gerarddavidgerard@circumstances.run
    Oct 19, 2026, 12:04 AM

    @jornane @zzt @netbsd

    > That is not an endorsement by the NetBSD project, and I don’t think anyone would assume that.

    If you put their frickin' logo on your page, you're endorsing them, even if there's a little note somewhere saying you're not. it's inane to suggest this doesn't function that way.

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  • Duncan Bayneduncan_bayne@bsd.cafe
    Oct 19, 2026, 12:08 AM

    @davidgerard @jornane @zzt @netbsd Yeah I certainly would read "their logo is on our site" as "we endorse them".

    I wouldn't have expected that a FLOSS project accepting donations would need a process to screen donors ... but here we are in 2026, and it looks like it might need to become common practice.

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  • sethsethmarinello@mastodon.online
    Oct 19, 2026, 12:11 AM

    @davidgerard @jornane @zzt @netbsd I would agree that putting a logo on the main page is basically endorsing - particularly when there are so few there. If that is following the current rules I would consider amending the rules to allow for ethics alignment to be reviewed. We already got invited to the Framework big tent and you can see how that turned out. - editing to remove an duplicate/alt word - brain fart!

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  • [object Object]zzt@mas.to
    Oct 19, 2026, 12:12 AM

    @davidgerard @jornane @netbsd especially when we’ve seen it function this way, in projects that reverted their anti-AI policy when a bunch of wealthy donors decided they were the only voices in the community that mattered, and the money was sweet enough that the project slept on enforcing moderation until the only people left talking were the ultra-toxic slopbros and the clout they bought.

    the same thing happens when projects take fash money, or war contractor money. FUTO’s name isn’t as well known as Palantir, Anduril, or Omarchy yet, but the community control tactics are always roughly the same.

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  • Lady Erranterrant@mastodon.sdf.org
    Oct 19, 2026, 12:36 AM

    @zzt @davidgerard @jornane @netbsd Framing this another way, lots of people have watched in horror as the OS they use has been taken over in ways they find disturbing. They are looking to NetBSD as an island of safety and then see some of the same names there already. Whatever the purpose of the policy in the past I think some people are looking for a sign that NetBSD can't be bought the way the linux kernel just apparently was. (edit for typo)

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  • Matt MonahanMonKaiju@todon.nl
    Oct 18, 2026, 11:04 PM

    @netbsd @zzt Understandable in simpler times, but that policy seems due for an update yeah? What are the odds this could be changed?

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  • Sharp Cheddar Goblinsharpcheddargoblin@reclusive.blog
    Oct 18, 2026, 11:15 PM

    @netbsd @zzt Sounds like some bureaucratic rules need changing. Hope to see how that goes before jumping into yet another OS that turns into a fascist haven.

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  • Pennypenny@eldritch.cafe
    Oct 19, 2026, 2:52 AM

    @netbsd You could have formed a special committee, you could have expeditiously and enthusiastically resolved the issue. You could have demonstrated humility and immediate condemnation of the party.

    You could have laid your values out on the table.
    And you did.

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  • Cassandrichdalias@hachyderm.io
    Oct 19, 2026, 4:23 AM

    @netbsd @zzt This is a policy which needs fixing. If anyone, no matter how bad they are, can get an ad/sponsorship credit just by sending an unsolicited donation, that *will* be abused. This is how FUTO operates. They tried that on musl sending me an unsolicited personal donation thru a channel explicitly labeled as not for organizational sponsorship credits only personal and tried to use the project name to give credibility to themselves, and I had to make a big deal in public and email them to finally get them to take the claim down.

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  • Kroc CamenKroc@oldbytes.space
    Oct 19, 2026, 9:55 AM

    @dalias @netbsd @zzt Also, I would add, that any organisation donating should not be allowed to have push access to repos, PRs only. This is how pro-AI policies get pushed with no community feedback

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  • Cassandrichdalias@hachyderm.io
    Oct 19, 2026, 12:15 PM

    @Kroc @netbsd @zzt The concept of an organization making donations having push access is utterly bonkers and is not something I would expect NetBSD to ever do. That is not called a donation or a sponsorship. It's called a buyout.

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