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  • Jan 16, 2026, 3:55 PM

    Training ML models on copyright-protected works is probably fair use. LLM creators have banked heavily on this, and so far have won on it. I understand why many people don’t like that result, but it’s the same basic doctrine that gave us great things like useful search engines (remember those?). To get a different result for LLMs, we’d probably need to fundamentally undermine the fair use doctrine, and I’m not remotely convinced that’s a baby we want to throw out.

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Replies

  • Jan 16, 2026, 4:00 PM

    That’s before we even get to the fact that Wikipedia is freely licensed under CC By-SA. Training ML models is permitted by the license, without a doubt. The only arguable question is whether the outputs (or far less likely, the models themselves) may sometimes be derivative works of the data.

    Mostly, they’re probably not. Litigating the question would be ungodly expensive and Wikimedia would likely lose, and would surely get less than an outcome definitively resolving the issue in its favor.

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  • Jan 16, 2026, 4:02 PM

    And if Wikimedia did win on that, it could have awful unintended consequences for free culture in other kinds of cases.

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  • Jan 16, 2026, 7:41 PM

    @copiesofcopies @pluralistic argues that the training of an LLM is fair use, but the works it produces are not copyrightable. Like the famous photo taken by a monkey.

    I find this argument pleasing because it targets the things we don’t like about AI:
    * enclosing and monopolizing the common heritage of humanity;
    * the illusion of authorship for users

    But I’m not a lawyer. What do you think?

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  • Jan 16, 2026, 7:49 PM

    @neilk @pluralistic I agree completely. A machine is not an author within the meaning of the copyright act. The output can only be subject to copyright protection if it incorporates substantially portions of training data, and then it’s the author of that training data that has a claim, not the LLM creator.

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  • Jan 24, 2026, 6:12 PM

    @copiesofcopies Actually, I also not a lawyer, but the output of the LLM should be compatible with even the least permissive licenses of the training data (which usually always include not just creative commons or so, but also some copyrighted data).

    So in most cases, output of LLM would be legal only for private, non-commercial use. Unless you consider it "remix", like in music... where it gets complicated.

    The conclusion, that the copyright holders of the LLM output are prompt authors, is definitely incorrect. They may claim copyright on the prompt text - if they publish it, which they probably won't (they would rather make it their trade secret). But the prompt would anyway work only with exact version of specific LLM, which cannot be always run independently (some of the could).

    Because copyright is strange concept in the first place - you need either some kind of "copying monopoly" or total lack of privacy to to enforce it - there are now good outcomes of trying to figure out how "derived works" created by LLM could be licensed. You would have to take into account every single license under which training data were published, not just parts of it. Which is totally impossible. So it's "weapon of mass destruction of intellectual property".

    @neilk @pluralistic

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  • Jan 16, 2026, 4:19 PM

    @copiesofcopies Does this position allow for the possibility that training the LLM is fair use, while certain uses of its output are not? For example:

    Could one ask an LLM to recite New York Times articles and then publish them verbatim?

    If one trained an LLM entirely on source code published under OSI licenses, could they use the model to produce derivative works under restrictive licenses?

    If one asks an LLM to design a smartphone platform API, and the resulting structure/sequence/organization looks a lot like the Java API, is the involvement of an LLM at all relevant to the ensuing copyright claim?

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  • Jan 16, 2026, 4:25 PM

    @willglynn Absolutely, those (edit: the first and third examples) would surely be infringement. It just seems to be very difficult to get LLMs to produce such damning output, as a glimpse through the complaint in the Copilot lawsuit will demonstrate.

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  • Jan 16, 2026, 4:27 PM

    @willglynn actually, the middle one would not be infringing, in my view, unless the outputs were substantially similar to the training data.

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  • Jan 16, 2026, 4:36 PM

    @copiesofcopies Interesting. 🤔

    In that example, everything that comes out is mathematically derivative works of OSI-licensed code. We started with random numbers, we followed derivatives of a function describing the error predicting OSI-licensed code in order to maximize similarity to that OSI-licensed code, and then at the end, we ultimately use that predictor to output more code.

    Every last bit of meaningful information in the prediction model came from an OSI-licensed source. Why is the output of that model unencumbered?

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  • Jan 16, 2026, 7:13 PM

    @willglynn it’s derivative in the colloquial sense but not necessarily the legal sense. Practically speaking, if the output contains no discernible remnant of any particular work, it’s highly unlikely to be considered infringing.

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  • Jan 17, 2026, 3:17 PM

    @copiesofcopies @willglynn

    You're only assuming it doesn't resemble the input for the purposes of calling it non-infringing, but that wasn't implied in the framing of the question.

    An LLM would probably have to have an obfuscating stage added purposefully to avoid similar sections of code showing up. It can't understand not to do that.

    I'm sure I saw something about an LLM plagiarism machine reproducing bits of comments with the original author's name in them.

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  • Jan 17, 2026, 6:08 PM

    @petealexharris @willglynn as I said, if there are substantially similar portions, it would infringe the works they were reproduced from. I know GitHub makes it possible to have Copilot outputs matched against training data. The hypothetical OSS LLM may output infringing code, it really depends on the implementation. But it’s unlikely that the output will be considered infringing simply because all of the training data is copyright protected.

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