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  • AstridAstridd@aus.social
    Aug 1, 2026, 2:45 AM

    @JulianOliver I agree to an extent. Even with 'more sustainable' data centres, they are using huge amounts of land (covering it with concrete and metal) and generating enough heat to significantly impact global warming. edition.cnn.com/2026/03/30/cli
    Not to mention all of the water and energy use (which yes can potentially be reduced with closed loop systems), but they also cause pollution, noise, and EMFs that kill all living things in their radius (like bees). We don't need AI that much. We need to prioritise people and planet if we want a future that doesn't look like a dystopian landscape where we're fighting to survive.

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Replies

  • Julian OliverJulianOliver@mastodon.social
    Aug 1, 2026, 2:57 AM

    @Astridd Yes what I mean to say is there's no Internet as we know it, without datacenters. Some degree of centralisation will be more energy efficient than total decentralisation. The Fediverse itself implements this - a 'many centers' topology.

    In an imaginary deeply-distributed p2p scenario, whereby we all self-host free & open source alts at home ('on prem' - I do this too), it would still amount to a more energy & mineral expensive WAN overall than what we have today built atop trad DC's

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  • AstridAstridd@aus.social
    Aug 1, 2026, 3:12 AM

    @JulianOliver we have been using the internet for 20 years and didn't need hyperscale data centres. They are for mass surveillance and AI growth. We don't need either of those at the expense of humanity and the planet. We need to reduce AI use before the system collapses. Am I wrong?

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  • Julian OliverJulianOliver@mastodon.social
    Aug 1, 2026, 4:00 AM

    @Astridd We agree :)

    Hyperscale datacenters brought massive efficiency gains. However, this in itself allowed for the service layer of the Internet to grow exponentially, more readily centralised around big tech providers, enabling the 'big data' era alongside.

    AI datacenters are vastly more expensive in every respect, as they are built atop GPUs, and in my view are an enormous problem yes, from climate to water, to minerals, cognitive and ontological health. I personally don't use AI at all.

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  • Adam van Sertimaadamvs1@mastodon.world
    Aug 1, 2026, 1:32 PM

    @Astridd @JulianOliver Isn’t it a ‘Jevon’s Paradox’?

    The ‘efficiencies of scale’ lead to increased overall consumption.

    As a society we never say ‘let’s replace our 3 inefficient installations with one efficient one, and leave it at that’. Our logic of growth and production says ‘let’s build 4 hyper efficient centres and get twice the output for only 150% the resources and waste’.

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  • Julian OliverJulianOliver@mastodon.social
    Aug 1, 2026, 4:07 AM

    @0x00string @Astridd I never said we need more big DC's. We need less, & to do that we need to change what we use the Internet for, how & where we deploy, how & what we consume over networks.

    If we're to have an Internet at all (incl this fediverse) & not consume vastly more energy than we are, some centralisation of hardware & topology will remain necessary.

    Small, low-footprint ethical (esp coop/community) DCs can play part in that.

    Total decentralisation is an expensive fairytale

    (EDITED)

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  • Nullstring 🏴‍☠️0x00string@infosec.exchange
    Aug 1, 2026, 4:10 AM

    @JulianOliver @Astridd i dont understand why the internet isnt working right now? anyway, this is great, we need fewer bigger datacenters whatever blah blah blah, lets focus some resources then on building yet more of these buildings and filling them with yet more of our resources and then do what with the existing ones you think we need to replace? just scrap yard those like microsoft just had the world do with windows 10 pcs?

    noble on its face but when i think about it for a second its a huge waste of resource for no reason when there are infinitely better uses for resources, like replacing the fuels that are destroying the environment.

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  • AstridAstridd@aus.social
    Aug 1, 2026, 6:28 AM

    @0x00string @JulianOliver I'd rather no internet. Life was fine without it. Now we are staring doomsday in the face. Believe me, I wish that was as crazy as it sounds. I never suggested replacing them. Look at the science

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  • Julian OliverJulianOliver@mastodon.social
    Aug 1, 2026, 6:36 AM

    @Astridd @0x00string I don't think so, no. But there is so much DC e-waste out there that can be routed to small community run (or small business) scale DC projects. No new hardware is needed!

    I have Dell rack servers in my studio that are 10+years old, rescued en route to the trash, that run beautifully. I've setup whole 'clouds', streaming services, document servers, blogs++ on old dumpster dived PCs. Enough to support a small org, dozens of active users 24/7.

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