When my mom started medical school, the dean gathered everyone in the auditorium and announced "I've been forced to admit three women into this class, but I want everyone to know that they took a spot away from a qualified man."
Fifty-something years later, my dad just got his latest batch of cardiology fellows, residents, and interns -- and every one of them is female.
@dan The phenomenon where once an occupation or activity becomes female coded men opt out (and pay drops).
Jul 11, 2026, 10:51 PM@dan - the only word that comes to mind is “putz”.
@dan My maternal grandfather was a doctor, and when my mother went to medics school (in the 70s) he didn’t believe she *was* actually in medical school until she graduated.
@dan Oh yeah and way before that, when my paternal grandfather was applying to colleges, one of them sent him a rather nasty rejection letter saying they had already admitted their quota of Jews for the upcoming freshman class. :oof:
@MisuseCase my PhD advisor, Barbara Liskov, showed me some of the letters she had gotten from grad schools saying "we do not accept women into our graduate program"
*The* Barbara Liskov? Holy crap.
And yeah, those grad schools were exceedingly dumb to reject her.
Jul 26, 2026, 4:37 AM@argv_minus_one @dan @MisuseCase
> *The* Barbara Liskov?
Technically her or any subclass.
In seriousness though, good lord. How many mediocre men did they accept.
@dan @MisuseCase Wild.
#TIL: Barbara Jane Liskov
born 1939, an American computer scientist who made pioneering contributions to programming languages & distributed computing. … including the introduction of abstract data types & the accompanying principle of data abstraction, & the Liskov substitution principle, which applies these ideas to object-oriented programming, subtyping, & inheritance. Her work was recognized with the 2008 Turing Award, the highest distinction in computer science.
@dan @MisuseCase When my wife interviewed for a tenure track job at a vet school (early ‘90s), no fewer than two people asked her if she planned to have children. If so, she would be a bad risk for actually getting tenure (too much time spent not grinding).
When she entered vet school (later ‘80s), the class was largely male. Now it’s overwhelmingly female, even in farm animals (her specialty).
@dan @MisuseCase When it came to food animals, both other doctors and farmers thought she couldn’t do the job. How could a 125lb/57kg handle a bull? It would run her right over!
She had to explain that if a one-ton animal decides to go through you instead of around, it doesn’t matter if you’re a burly man twice her size: you *will* be moved out of the way, perhaps at a high speed.
Jul 28, 2026, 9:01 PM@marick brute force turns out to not be as useful with large animals than men think.
I had to give my horse eye drops for a year. We had a very friendly trusting relationship and it was so easy. And gentle.
@deepmud A lot of what Dawn did “on clinics” was teach vet students how to keep cows calm. For example, being herbivores, cows have something like a 135 degree field of vision. They don’t like things suddenly manifesting from their blind spot, so you should approach the cow from the front, put your hands on her, and nonaggressively move behind her – whereupon you stick your hand up her butt.
(Apparently that’s OK for the cow, I guess.)
@deepmud However, another important thing to know was that if a bovine wants to smash you against a wall, it will, so your job is to go limp (so as to avoid some damage) and then fall down immediately (so the animal decides you’re no longer a threat and wanders away).
Jul 28, 2026, 11:52 PM@marick horses are pretty sensitive and delicate. Also stupid compared to cows.
A cow caught in barbed wire will wait. A horse will kick itself to death.
Preventing being crushed is always a good idea! Some folks carry a wooden box. The box gives them space if crushing is on the menu. I've never had an animal try to crush me. But other things...
@deepmud Dawn was recruited by the University of Wisconsin vet school. It had advantages (beer in the student union! which is on a lake!), but she would have had to work on horses. She declined.
Jul 29, 2026, 12:26 AM@marick horses are dangerous. Although a heifer with horns is pretty scary. They KNOW they have horns. 😬
@deepmud Dawn did hoof trims (or something) on rodeo bulls. They would come in a group. They were feisty. They had big horns and knew how to use them.
But she mainly worked on dairy cattle, which in the US don’t have horns. However, I remember when we were in the UK on our honeymoon we went to see a Celtic cross in the middle of a field. There was a big bull in the field. She marched straight on. I said, “Um… dear… bull?” She said, “Oh, he’s not mad” and marched on. I followed, and lived.
Aug 1, 2026, 12:23 AM@marick she's more brave than I am. Those critters moods can change pretty quickly. 😬
@deepmud I asked Dawn about it. She says that dangerous mood changes happen when the animal feels threatened. So the trick is to avoid making it feel threatened.
Aug 2, 2026, 12:08 AM@marick welllllll, yes...but the result of this mood change can get you put into orbit.
@deepmud Dawn says the key skill is understanding when the mood of the animal starts changing, so that you can prepare.
She also informed me that llamas have killed people. An interesting bit is that they can charge a coyote, scoop it up with the head (they have really strong necks), fling it into the air, and then trample it when it hits the ground. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guard_llama (1/2)
Another fun fact is that, among the ruminants, llama milk is closest to human milk. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8786255/ When she discovered that, I thought of a business producing high-end, high-price infant formula based on llama milk, but it turns out llamas are really hard to milk, even for baby llamas. (2/2)
@deepmud
Aug 2, 2026, 12:59 AM@marick that's not the only good thing from llamas. Remember the antibodies they have? They may eventually help very sick people with things like covid
@deepmud I don’t recall anything about antibodies. (Meaning Dawn may not have mentioned it to me.) I do know they have elliptical blood cells, supposedly better for low-oxygen environments.
Aug 2, 2026, 11:45 PM@marick just google "llama antibodies". You will be amazed!
@deepmud Shocking that Dawn never told me about “nanobodies.” What other llama facts has she been hiding from me?
Aug 2, 2026, 1:00 AM@marick donkeys too. I raised sheep. When I left, my sister got donkeys. They HATE dogs.
Of course it didn't help much that my sister also got a couple borzois. Really good at killing sheep. ☹️
@deepmud
P.S. Dawn likes cows because they’re stoic. She thinks horses are like fussbol players: the slightest issue and they get all dramatic: I’ve been bumped! It’s the end of the world! Flop! Except that horses will prove their point by dying.
Jul 28, 2026, 11:50 PM@marick horses are similar in that if you look like you're sneaking up on them, they try to run away. Gentle deliberate action seems better
@dan Your mom didn’t go to med school in Virginia, did she?
@ClimateJenny nope, this was University of Chicago
@dan I still remember being interviewed by a man for a place at a prestigious college some 40 years ago that had just begun admitting women, and guess what he said to me:
“I don’t like women”
I ended up elsewhere
@dan funny thing really, but as a male patient, when I have the choice between a male and a female doctor, I nearly always choose the female one. I feel much more comfortable discussing medical issues with female doctors.
@dan My mom was manager of a communications team at an ad agency. She was given a male summer student intern to train. He got a higher pay rate than she did. Sadly, that's the way things were not that many decades ago. She could barely make ends meet with the pay she got.
@dan I may have shit on his desk.
@dan Haha, these "fellows" are all "gals," I guess.