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  • Cantakerous Lesbian Sourceresssocketwench@hackers.town
    Apr 12, 2025, 2:07 AM

    It takes a full 50 minutes before we get Spock back and he loses that hockey hair. Arguably, we could have cut nearly an entire 30 minutes from the film at this point, hand-waving away key details. We could have skipped so many scenes and landed right at the point Spock helps to repair the ship and relays his impressions of a distant, space-borne consciousness.

    In another film, I might have called much of the wormhole sequence and much of the set dressing to get the crew back together as a "filler". In many ways, it is. The development of the film's script was difficult not only for production reasons, but because this was the first attempt to translate Star Trek to the big screen. Growing pains are inevitable.

    Moreover, the film is revealing it's true intent in all those loving model work and effect shots. This is less a film, and more a loving gift to fans of the original show. It's pretty, it's cerebral, and it actually does have a compelling (if slow) plot. There are reasons I recommend *against* The Motion Picture as a first introduction to Star Trek films; Wrath of Khan (or First Contact) is a far better choice.

    #wenchwatches #startrektmp

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  • Cantakerous Lesbian Sourceresssocketwench@hackers.town
    Apr 12, 2025, 2:31 AM

    The initial reconnaissance of the V'ger craft is yet another moment of loving effects work. Portions of it recall 2001 A Space Odyssey, particularly the cloud entry. Some portion's of V'ger's fore I swear I've seen recalled in more recent works such as Mass Effect.

    The key trick of the entire part of the film is much like a stereotypical horror film axiom: "Don't show the entire monster -- at least at first". Films such as Pitch Black used this to great effect, but TMP also employs the same trick here.

    Instead of instilling fear by withholding information, the purpose of the sequence is to impart a sense of awe and smallness in comparison. This is muted at first, until the entire Enterprise -- already a giant at human scale -- is shown. The V'ger craft takes up the entire screen, implying to even larger than our godlike cinematic gaze permits, while our favorite starship is a mere slot car in size. In the theatrical cut, our satisfaction is entirely denied in seeing all of V'ger at once until a brief frame or two prior to it's disappearance. The Director's Cut had CGI on its side, so we get delicious detailed shots as it approaches earth.

    The original pan sequence took a significant amount of time to film. Shot frame by frame in a smoke filled set over the course of hours. If I recall, at least 12. This, no doubt placed extreme demands on the V'ger model. A full reveal may not have looked good with the technology of the time.

    In a way, the earlier slow sequence of the Enterprise reveal parallels V'ger's reveal. The Enterprise sequence emphasizes wonder and a sense of majesty while also establishing a human scale for the ship. Star Trek has *never* been good at scale -- even as late as Voyager did such issues persist -- but it does give you a gut sense of it. Returning to the V'ger reveal, the sense of smallness and implied threat is amplified. If only the two sequences were closer together could the parallel have been made more strongly.

    But *damn*, is the inside of V'ger pretty...

    #wenchwatches #startrektmp

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  • Cantakerous Lesbian Sourceresssocketwench@hackers.town
    Apr 12, 2025, 2:43 AM

    So. Persis Kumbata. Let's talk about her.

    Her character of Ilya is presented -- entirely dryly -- as a means to add an element of sexiness to the film. It's hard to ignore the...particular...way she was instructed to move around during the wormhole sequence. This, as well as the entire concept of the Deltans, is unfortunately consistent with Roddenberry's problematic smarm.

    Marina Sirtis was often used for similar ends throughout Star Trek The Next Generation. She wasn't even spared when reprising her role in Star Trek Picard, well after the death of Rodenberry himself. While I understand this is an unfortunate part of existing in a genre and industry which largely caters to the male gaze, it gets more and more frustrating as I get older. Yes, TMP is older than I am, but it still mars the experience when I wish it didn't.

    #wenchwatches #startrektmp

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  • Cantakerous Lesbian Sourceresssocketwench@hackers.town
    Apr 12, 2025, 3:24 AM

    Spock's exploration into V'ger's memory chamber is perhaps one of the most unfortunate parts of the entire film. What actually made to screen is...the last minute re-shoot.

    Originally, both Spock *and* Kirk were to explore this part of V'ger in what was called "The Memory Wall". This sequence extensively storyboarded, sets were produced, and even sequences filmed.

    Much film archeology has been done on the sequence, and a few minutes of searching can yield these artifacts. The sequence could have been a highlight of the entire film, an effects and cinematic triumph. With the lack of CGI and the limitations of green screens at the time resulted in severe limitations in shooting options and an unwieldy wiring rig necessary to suspend the actors.

    It's easy to imagine this sequence being better than the late run, Spock-centric one that ended up in the final film. Some of the set work and recreations are impressive, and more consistent with the feel of V'ger as a whole. My fear, however, is that it might have ended up veering into the cheesy, as such suspended sequences tend to be. Even First Contact's spacewalking sequence didn't entirely succeed, despite all the budgetary and effects advancements at its disposal.

    The existing sequence in TMP avoids this by doing *less*. Spock is largely immobile, but he isn't required to move either to make the sequence believable. He's already in significant motion, and he simply passes by or through the recreations unabated. Having the sequence be Spock alone also gives him a moment to shine without Kirk; a highlight for me as a fan of the character.

    #wenchwatches #startrektmp

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  • Cantakerous Lesbian Sourceresssocketwench@hackers.town
    Apr 12, 2025, 3:40 AM

    In a way, I'm also glad for the Memory Wall not being present in the film. The unimpressiveness of the last-minute sequence had a interesting side effect.

    When we at least meet V'ger in person, nestled in a highly advanced pit of technology, we see -- a Voyager-style space probe. The contradiction is perhaps one of the most enjoyable moments of the whole film. We later learn it is indeed a Voyager craft, Voyager 6, and the corruption of the name due to the degradation of the nameplate obscuring key letters.

    If I imagine this reveal combined with the memory wall, I feel that impact would have been lessened. The way the set goes from pensive blues and greens to a more threatening red would have felt a little tiring at this point. Instead, the more minimalistic "Spock-walk" as opposed to the Memory Wall, saves the punch for the most critical moment.

    #wenchwatches #startrektmp

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  • UnlikelyLassUnlikelylass@mspsocial.net
    Apr 12, 2025, 3:45 AM

    @crowbriarhexe @socketwench Wikipedia says both came out december of 79, but ST was a couple weeks before BH. I know I saw BH in a theater, but not ST, and I don't remember snow on the ground...

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  • The Witch of Crow Briarcrowbriarhexe@tech.lgbt
    Apr 12, 2025, 3:47 AM

    @Unlikelylass @socketwench Yeah, that makes sense. Visually it feels like they share some influences, thematically a little but they go in wildly different directions >_< I do wonder what both could have been if Star Wars had come out a few years later.

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  • Cantakerous Lesbian Sourceresssocketwench@hackers.town
    Apr 12, 2025, 3:50 AM

    @crowbriarhexe @Unlikelylass There are reasons Alien feels so damn different than Aliens. Alien is also part of that 70s slow SF, but also draws upon a legacy of slow British Horror which was popular in the same decade. This is why Hellraiser feels so kindred to Alien -- same DNA.

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  • UnlikelyLassUnlikelylass@mspsocial.net
    Apr 12, 2025, 3:56 AM

    @socketwench @crowbriarhexe I always contended that Alien was horror, while Aliens was military SF -- I think having more xenomorphs meant that collectively they couldn't be any more dangerous than the single one was in Alien, plus you had actual military equipment, soldiers, and a whole planet instead of a single starship. Dunno.

    But yeah, overall, 70s SF was really living in the shadow of 2001: A Space Odyssey. Space: 1999 and Silent Running both have that 70s pacing and Big Ideas, too, IMHO

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  • UnlikelyLassUnlikelylass@mspsocial.net
    Apr 12, 2025, 4:03 AM

    @socketwench @crowbriarhexe On the other hand, then you have something like Blake's 7, which I was rewatching recently -- it's got a very different vibe, being rooted more in Dr. Who crossed with Brave New World, 1984, and Foundation. Dunno.

    There's probably a masters thesis in "video SF of the 70s, and how it changed post-Star Wars". There are plenty of exceptions, but there's a core of thoughtful attempts at melding adventure, prognostication, and philosophy, IMHO. Even BSG is trying.

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  • CMPRRSN RTFCTJoshuaACNewman@xeno.glyphpress.com
    Apr 12, 2025, 1:40 PM

    @socketwench @Unlikelylass @crowbriarhexe
    It can be torrented.

    It sort of claims to be these things, but it’s a mess. Actors kept leaving because the writing and characters are weak. Any given episode probably forgets what happened last time. At a certain point late in the series, the characters are shocked and appalled at the very premise of the show, which the writers had clearly forgotten.

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